What does it mean to you?

[ATC]

There are many post on here about kids vs. adults and Black belts. I have read over just about every response and from what I am reading it seem to me that some on here seem to have this SuperMan vision of a BB. They seem to think that once you get a BB you are it. I hear things like a BB better be able to handle himself or herself. What does that mean? Once you get a BB you are now unbeatable? Is that really what a BB means?

I would just like to hear what each thinks it means to reach a Black Belt. What now comes with that title and what you think is expected because you are now a Black Belt.

Be assured that I will chime in with my .02 on this as well.

 

[terryl965]

I will be first for you,

A BB means alot to different people, one will say they have just begun thier journey while others say they have mastered the basics.

For me it means you have put in alot of time becomming confitable enough to past my test. It means you have learned enough to become proficent enough to pass my test. It means you have become an emotional wreck during m test and was able to do everything good enough for me to give it to you. The bottom line is this you have meet all my requirements for me to say here you are one of my BB, this means nothing anywhere else except here in my school and if you want a KKW certificate it will mean something for those schools as well. Remember my testers not all BB are created equal and not all BB stay in the Arts thier entire life and I am glad you was able to stay long enough to earn this rank and hopefully stay longer and learn even more.

Thier is no right or wrong answer here every BB has an opinion about what a BB is and what are truely a BB and what is simply a Mc Dojo BB. God Bless this greta country as a whole where people have choices and opinions.

 

[Twin Fist]

"I dont have to worry about them being alone on the street"

 

[Gorilla]

What is this mythical street everyone always talks about??? Seems dangerous very scary!!!

 

[Tez3]

What is this mythical street everyone always talks about??? Seems dangerous very scary!!!

Have a look at this thread
http://martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=80848

It's a funny story only because the guys turned out to be able to look after themselves but this is one aspect of the 'street', completely random attacks by drunk yobs. It could have turned out completely different.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

"I dont have to worry about them being alone on the street"

I dont think it can ever be said that you dont have to worry about them on the street because its all relative. I knew a guy years ago who was black belt in zen do kai , which is an extremely effective art and to get a black belt in it you have to be very very good , his black belt test alone would have killed most people. Anyhow , last I heard of him he was in town one night and 2 guys dragged him into an alley and beat him within inches of his life. I realised at that point that there is no clear line that defines when someone can "handle themselves on the street" , its just too broad a term.

 

[ACJ]

A black belt should be a milestone that most effectively increases someone's input into and output from training. That is; as a goal that can strived towards, and as a point to start new training and training from a new perspective.

That is to say the ultimate goal for me in teaching martial arts, is to increase the knowledge and skill of those that I teach, and those that they teach. So if there was someone who could never reach the standard test requirements for black belt, say due to a physical ailment, I would likely not hold them back from black belt, if giving (making them take it, anyway ) them the black belt would give them further drive to increase their knowledge and skill in the arts. Of course there are pitfalls to such a method, you have not only think of the impact it will have on the student, but also on other students, who may lessen the value of their own black belt.

 

[Cirdan]

A BB knows the basics of the system pretty well and is able to perform under pressure. This includes being able to knock someone out.

In broad terms, that`s it.

 

[dancingalone]

You likely asked this question at least partially in response to a post I made on another thread...

It's surely hard to put into words but easy enough to discern in person. To me a black belt has applicable skill in bare hands combat. He has certain elements of timing to see an opening along with the physical prowess to connect with a devastating blow to the same target. A black belt should have experienced exhaustion and pain and be able to fight through those feelings at least for a short time. You should be able to step onto the floor with a black belt for a friendly match and be see crisp technique, efficient movement, effective defense.

Fundamentally, I just think the dan ranks should be a lot more selective than they currently are in many schools. No, you're not invincible as a black belt, but at the same time you are not someone to be lightly regarded either. Mental and physical toughness is a must.

I believe you or someone else mentioned streetfighters and how they can often dispatch martial artists. True enough. No one is unbeatable. But let's consider what makes a streetfighter tough to begin with. He's likely used to physical contact. He has real intent and determination to hurt his target. He is perhaps strong physically. A black belt should have all of these attributes too with the added advantage of structured training in a fighting system, a martial art in other words.

Believing these are attributes any black belt should have, it should be easy enough to see who I would likely exclude from the dan ranks:

1) the physically weak or infirm (yes, you get to keep your rank if you become old or sick - in my book you earned it when you were strong and fit)
2) those who shy from physical contact and those who lack the mental state to be able to physically strike another person with nasty intent
3) minors who for obvious reasons cannot train in a fashion to develop the above traits

I don't think I'm describing Superman above. An elite martial artist yes. And keep in mind, plenty of otherwise good martial artists might very well be disqualified under my bar. And that's fine too in my book. It's time that the brown belt meant something again.

 

[TKD_Father]

I don't remember where I read this, but it said that in TKD a Black Belt meant that your "basic" training had been completed and your real training can now begin. It's not the cumulation of training, rather a transition from fundamentals to advanced techniques.

Kind of like finishing high school (Red Belt) and going to college (Black Belt).

 

[Stac3y]

I'm not in TKD, but here's my take:

1. Can competently perform everything in the school's curriculum.
2. Can competently teach the material in the school's curriculum to others.
3. Understands the concepts in the curriculum well enough to modify techniques to suit the situation.
4. Can do all of the above under extreme pressure.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

The student must be able to demonstrate that they are proficient in the full kyu grade curriculum, be it karate, aikido, taekwondo, hapkido, kendo, kenpo, kempo, or kajukenbo.

So, proficiency: Proficiency is separate from being physically gifted. I want to see the student demonstrate proficiency, not athletics.

Meaning that when performing forms, strikes and blocks should have reasonable snap and power; enough power that the strike would actually hurt an opponent and that a block would actually stop an attack.

The form should be done with precision and depth of understanding: a student should be able to transition between stances and make each stance distinct without losing ballance.

He or she should be able to execute all of the techniques in the form correctly and spontaneously: no pausing to remember if it is punch or a backfist.

The form should also be precise regarding the intended targets of the techniques contained within: a kick that is supposed to be aimed at the knee should be aimed at the knee, not some nebulous, mid-leg-ish area, and not at the sky.

A guy who does the Koryo form, for example, and aims the first set of double kicks skyward is demonstrating athletics, nothing more. As impressive as that is, he is not showing an understanding of the form. The first kick is to collapse knee. The second is aimed at the solar plexus and is meant to take down the now crippled opponent. No matter how much power and snap he has, if he misses the target entirely, then it is meaningless. Firing a .44 into the air makes a big, cool sound. But it is also a waste of ammunition.

Aside from reasonable precision, understanding, power and snap, I want to see the student handle themselves in free sparring. I want to see them exert control over the pace of the fight, maintain their composure, remain precise. Even if the student is sparring a fifth dan uber-Chuck and has to fight defensively, their proficiency should be clearly seen.

There are tons of people who can do every form and execute every strike and block and who may look pretty doing so. But do they understand the techniques? Can they use them against a resisting opponent?

Lastly, is their ability to spar entirely dependent upon them having a certain degree of physical prowess?

In other words, is the guy sloppy, but always wins because he is tall and built like Bret Hart when Bret was in his prime and simply can punish you because he is really, really strong?

If so, then he is not proficient; he is just really strong and athletically gifted. But when that deserts him, as it will eventually, without proficiency, he will start getting beaten by really sharp low belts.

That is why I do not want to see just a display of athletics.

Ultimately, a martial art is supposed to be for life, not just for your athletic prime. Techniques are supposed to be done correctly because if done correctly, they do not require you to muscle through them. A person with substantial technical command of their art can remain formidable well past their prime and competent into their old age. Not only that, their practice of martial arts should hone their minds and positively impact other areas of their life.

This is what it means when it is said that martial arts is about more than just fighting.

A blackbelt understands this. They understand that it is not just about being able to overwhelm opponents with force and power. They understand that is not just about fighting. They may not understand at the same level as a seventy year old man who has been practicing since youth, but they know that that is the goal and are able to start moving in that direction.

The blackbelt is the beginning of true learning, and it is the maturity to become more teachable and to make the martial art about more than just punches and kicks. It is the beginning of a deeper understanding of the art.

Daniel

 

[Tez3]

You likely asked this question at least partially in response to a post I made on another thread...



Fundamentally, I just think the dan ranks should be a lot more selective than they currently are in many schools. No, you're not invincible as a black belt, but at the same time you are not someone to be lightly regarded either. Mental and physical toughness is a must.

I believe you or someone else mentioned streetfighters and how they can often dispatch martial artists. True enough. No one is unbeatable. But let's consider what makes a streetfighter tough to begin with. He's likely used to physical contact. He has real intent and determination to hurt his target. He is perhaps strong physically. A black belt should have all of these attributes too with the added advantage of structured training in a fighting system, a martial art in other words.

Believing these are attributes any black belt should have, it should be easy enough to see who I would likely exclude from the dan ranks:

1) the physically weak or infirm (yes, you get to keep your rank if you become old or sick - in my book you earned it when you were strong and fit)
2) those who shy from physical contact and those who lack the mental state to be able to physically strike another person with nasty intent
3) minors who for obvious reasons cannot train in a fashion to develop the above traits

I don't think I'm describing Superman above. An elite martial artist yes. And keep in mind, plenty of otherwise good martial artists might very well be disqualified under my bar. And that's fine too in my book. It's time that the brown belt meant something again.

Every so often I read something and go 'damn, I wish I'd witten that!'
This is one of those times, spot on.

 

[KELLYG]

To me it means that:
I have an understanding and can apply basic techniques.
I have trained hard for period of time.
I have taken a grueling Black Belt test.
I have been tested mentally and physically to the point of exhaustion and was able to handle myself against single or multiple attackers.
I should be an example and an inspiration to my fellow students.
Understanding though I know a lot I know nothing all at.
I have a better knowledge of myself and my limitations, and have gone beyond what I thought my limits were.

People think that being a Black belt has some type of magical powers. It does not. It simply means that I am better prepared now to handle my self in a sticky situation.

 

[CoryKS]

"I dont have to worry about them being alone on the street"

The bullets: does your style teach that they should be dodged, or caught?

 

[Twin Fist]

are you high? dodged of course.....

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

I don't remember where I read this, but it said that in TKD a Black Belt meant that your "basic" training had been completed and your real training can now begin. It's not the cumulation of training, rather a transition from fundamentals to advanced techniques.

Kind of like finishing high school (Red Belt) and going to college (Black Belt).

You have probably seen it in numerous places, both here on MT and in martial arts literature in general.

This is an exerpt from Dave Lowry's book, "The Karate Way: Discovering the Spirit of Practice."

I think that it is very pertinant to both this discussion and the youth BB discussion. It addresses time to BB, child BB's and what a BB represents in the west as compared to what it represents in Japan.

Enjoy,

Daniel
************************************

Excerpt from The Karate Way
Chapter 14: What Does a Black Belt Mean?
The black belt is—or has become—far more than just a symbol of rank in the karate dojo and to the public at large. It has an aura about it. It has a connotation. What is the first thing the average person thinks of when you say “black belt” in reference to karate-do or martial arts in general? Masterful skill. Extraordinary abilities. The black belt is the mark of an expert. Those actually training in a particular art might have a more objective, less sensationalized definition. If you have been pursuing karate-do for any time at all, long enough in particular to have attained a rank symbolized by that belt, you will have a more nuanced perception, probably. You will understand a great deal about what has gone into reaching that level. If you are fortunate, you will understand much more about what lies beyond that level. Nevertheless, we have to admit that the popular image of the black belt is inextricably woven into the general perception of these arts we follow. While we may have a more comprehensive view of the belt, we need to see that in the population outside the dojo, in the world at large, it usually means something else. When a black belt is conferred upon a karateka, that has implications in the popular imagination. And we should consider some ramifications that perception and those implications in turn have upon what people think about karate-do.

More.

 

[ynnad]

2) those who shy from physical contact and those who lack the mental state to be able to physically strike another person with nasty intent

This is a stunning statement. Since I can't think of anyone who wouldn't strike with nasty intent if their life was on the line, I assume you mean someone who is predisposed to this "mental state." Sounds like a thug to me. Moreover, I find it the highest of virtues of a black belt to shy away from physically striking another person, though they know they have the ability to immobilize them. My first rule of self defense is: The only 100% full-proof strategy to self-defense is to never be in a situation where you need to. If this means losing face, losing money, so be it. I guess I am willing to give up anything short of my family's or my life.

Danny

 

[ynnad]

A black belt in the academy I attend means you have gone through the curriculum and have demonstrated an ability to perform it to your own level.

This seems to be where the market is now and it isn't going back. It seems that the logical next step in the evolution of belt advancement is to develop some other form of distinguishing those who perform at higher levels. Isn't this the point of the belt system to begin with? I'm sure traditionalist lamented the introduction of the belt system to begin with. Now, it must continue to evolve with the culture it is in. You can't change the culture.

Reminds me of Dilbert's cartoon yesterday. The boss told an employee that she was making significantly less than the market average, but that he wasn't going to stand for that. He was going to make sure he got the market to lower the average salary.

If your black belt means more than others' and you want to distinguish that, then add a distinguishing factor, but you are not going to change what a black belt means in the culture.

 

[Manny]

Been a Black Belt or acieve Black Belt status soes not mean you are superman, nop, it meas one has reached certain level and no longer are a beginer student but not a master either way.

Been a black belt does not means one's is unbeatable' in fact any well seasoned street punk (fighter) can put a black belt in serius troubles in the streets. However been a black belt or achiving black belt status makes us more comon sense, give us maturity to read our enviroment and to stay away of troubles.

Yes, been a black belt gives us some degree in how to deal with fear and manage bad things in life.

Manny