What do you think about this here?

[marques]

Let's say I go to this very teacher and see him in real life what exactly does this change? Where is the difference
between watching him do his stuff in the video and standing next to him when he does the same stuff?
Then I still have NO clue if it's good or not.

Now I understand better point. Legit.

What we are saying is you need a personalised feedback / guidance, up to watching 'examples'. Even if we all agree "this is the best guy in the world, follow him" you still can just watch his videos...

You need training partners in different sizes, shapes and characteristics (do you have?). And you need to be corrected while training (Who will do it?). Must of good things we don't see on video (too subtle). Must of bad things on ourselves we don't realise...

There is nothing - no club - near you, right? Go far way. Can you afford it twice a month? 4? Are you able to create a group and 'repeat' the training in your garage or somewhere... doubling, tripling the training time without move far away (and without close feedback, too)? Can you find some interested and skilled practicant near you to train with?...

 

[kehcorpz]

no of course there are schools in my region but i dont know which ones are good.
twice a month? isnt this a little too less? i heard you should train at least 2 times a week.
it also sounds logical that the more often you train the faster you progress.

it would already help me if people for example could tell me if somebody in a video uses good or bad technique
of if people could post videos of people with good technique! then i could watch it and get a feeling for what good
stuff looks like. this again would enable me to see if a teacher is good or not!

 

[Phobius]

That is the problem, we can say some who are good. But if you compare those videos to someone else then their Wing Chun will look different and also be good.

System is one thing, but styles are unique per individual. There are also teachers that know their art well but are more teachers than fighters so they are a lot better at teaching you than at fighting themselves. And what they do on forms depend on what they wish to demonstrate and also what lineage they are from. So saying one video is good will tell you nothing about another.

Just take a leap of faith and select one club. The one with the teacher you are most likely to respect. If you can not respect your teacher it does not matter if he is the best, you wont stay to train for the rest of your life anyways.

 

[kehcorpz]

yeah different styles is one thing. but the real question is basically what's simply more effective in general. for example when somebody wants to
travel from point A to point B with his car then you can generally say which route is the shortest. this is a fact. so somebody who wants to go the shortest
route knows what to do there is no room for debate.

let's say somebody teaches that blocking and attacking is one fluent move and somebody else teaches that you block first and then attack which is 2 moves
then can't you generally say that 1 fluent motion is simply better cause it's faster and more efficient than 2 moves????

 

[marques]

no of course there are schools in my region but i dont know which ones are good.
twice a month? isnt this a little too less? i heard you should train at least 2 times a week.
it also sounds logical that the more often you train the faster you progress.

Sorry, I misunderstood you with someone else. So ask us about the options you have (probably they have YouTube channel and maybe someone can say something from that).
Yes, twice a month is short if you can train more. Yes, usually the more the better. But, like in musculation, I wouldn't recommend starting too hard. About twice a week is the ideal to start...

 

[marques]

yeah different styles is one thing. but the real question is basically what's simply more effective in general. for example when somebody wants to
travel from point A to point B with his car then you can generally say which route is the shortest. this is a fact. so somebody who wants to go the shortest
route knows what to do there is no room for debate.

let's say somebody teaches that blocking and attacking is one fluent move and somebody else teaches that you block first and then attack which is 2 moves
then can't you generally say that 1 fluent motion is simply better cause it's faster and more efficient than 2 moves????

It seems good logic. The problem is in Martial Arts things are not so clear like that.

As an example, all training is fake. Otherwise you will kill or be killed (injured too much...) in training. So people start believing that 'it' kills, instead of killing for real (hopefully). People start striking walls and wood that is miles way from striking people... And from that beliefs can go until the infinite!

Also, you have opposites like striking and grappling both working as well. There are trade offs between speed, power, safety, economy... So different ways from A to B. You have people with very different resources. You have people just looking for fun and fitness. And instructors just looking for profit or looking to keep doors open at least. (It may change the good technique because it is profitable to give the client what he expects or dreams.) The variables are infinite.

Without clear statistics and documentation (as we have in combat sports), there is forever room for debate. And martial arts forums! In Martial Arts, a lot of people is lost between A to B, or just taking different paths, or aiming C instead of B...

Do we have police reports, or something else, to support 'What has been working'? I like to think from combat sports. Rear naked choke is the most effective submission, in MMA at least (room for debate?). Then start guessing that it without gloves will be easier (even more effective), but if striking on the back is 'allowed' you have other options... and then believe or experiment (as far as possible).

Experiment.

 

[kehcorpz]

Good points. It's also exhausting to always try to figure out what's better. This brings some relief.

 

[PiedmontChun]

Nothing in the original video posted looks unusual to me for someone from the WT side. It obviously seemed 'promotional' in nature, versus a tutorial format, and therefore the demonstrations were done with a bit of gusto. Some of the dummy portion appears to be freestyling to showcase techniques, since a couple of those are not in the form itself. And I would say in general, most of those movements would be done with more relaxation when practicing.

To piggyback on lots of other poster's before me, I would say that looking at videos online and trying to pick apart nuances or finer points where different teachers might differ is.... a mostly pointless exercise if you have never trained WC/WT/VT under a teacher in person. Regarding trying to find a good teacher or evaluate them, I would say look at their students and the way the class is run. That is a bigger single indicator of whether you are wasting your time and $$$.

 

[kehcorpz]

Nothing in the original video posted looks unusual to me for someone from the WT side.

what about what he does in the beginning where he turns his wrist and moves his hand in circles? what is this supposed to be good for? this looks like the stuff from karate kid. he also did these strange moves. but i wonder does this really have any real life application?

 

[geezer]

what about what he does in the beginning where he turns his wrist and moves his hand in circles? what is this supposed to be good for? this looks like the stuff from karate kid. he also did these strange moves. but i wonder does this really have any real life application?

Are you talking about the huen-sau or circling hand movement? That's a standard Wing Chun/Ving Tsun/Wing Tsun movement done repeatedly in each of the empty handed forms. And yes it can be used in the real world if you have a clue as to what it is about.

It is practiced for several reasons ...At least as we do it in my branch. It stretches and strengthens the wrist, it can be applied to circle around your opponent's wrist and arm to release pressure, "to pass the arm" and gain a free line of attack, to pluck aside or control the arm and turn your opponent, or it can be converted into lap-sau to grab and/or lock the opponent's arm or wrist, or conversely be used to snake out of a lock or tight grip ....to name just a few possibilities.

You have to understand that Wing Chun movements as trained in the form deal with position, structure, and concepts. They are not translatable one-to-one to specific applications. The applications are multiple, diverse, and situational. Applications may be used to illustrate possibilities, that's all.

Yes, this is basic material, but the basics are deep. You can't learn this stuff on a forum or youtube. If you try, you will get it wrong. So find a good teacher. Seriously.

....Oh, what the heck. Watch this to get a general idea, and then get into a good school:

 

[PiedmontChun]

Kehcorpz, when learning Siu Nim Tao (the first WC form), I could see how the Huen Sau was important for stretching / strengthening the wrists but skeptical of it being useful in application. Its funny how training can often prove your preconceptions wrong over time. I'm not an advanced student in the slightest, and I find Huen Sau type movement valuable these days for the things Geezer points out in his post above, even though it might look different than the static stationary way its practiced in the form.

 

[kehcorpz]

Thanks guys.