What do you think about this here?

[kehcorpz]

What is this? Doesn't look like traditional WC to me.
But does it still look good?

What's your take on the wooden dummy stuff which he does, starting at 1:07?

This is exactly the issue. When I watch wooden dummy training videos then almost all
videos look really cool and impressive. But in order to tell if this is good technique you
have to have experience but I have none!

Especially in WC it seems to me as if when it comes to proper technique there are very fine
details in how you move but these details seem to be really important. This means if somebody
has bad form then his stuff sucks and the more he practices the more he will internalize bad form!

 

[Flying Crane]

I don't have a comment on the video, but regarding your comments: yup, that's why Internet or video instruction does not work. You need a real teacher working directly with you.

 

[kehcorpz]

You need a real teacher working directly with you.

Let's say I go to this very teacher and see him in real life what exactly does this change? Where is the difference
between watching him do his stuff in the video and standing next to him when he does the same stuff?
Then I still have NO clue if it's good or not.

 

[Phobius]

Let's say I go to this very teacher and see him in real life what exactly does this change? Where is the difference
between watching him do his stuff in the video and standing next to him when he does the same stuff?
Then I still have NO clue if it's good or not.

Well it is like playing the odds.

Watching video means you will never know if you are good, no matter how much or how hard you practise.

Listening to your teacher then he will know if you are good or not, and help you get good on his terms, so only thing you need to figure out is if he is good. That is way easier since he has had more training than you have. Otherwise you have to figure out if you are good, and that answer you can not possibly know until after a long time has passed.

Basically it is quicker to figure out if you are on the right path if you have a teacher.

 

[MAfreak]

i see body shots, palm strikes and high kicks (the latter is not for self defense but untypical for wing chun) so i like it from what i saw here.

 

[Flying Crane]

Let's say I go to this very teacher and see him in real life what exactly does this change? Where is the difference
between watching him do his stuff in the video and standing next to him when he does the same stuff?
Then I still have NO clue if it's good or not.

He can watch you, and correct the many many mistakes you will be making, constantly. Over video, it's not possible.

And something like FaceTime or Skype is no good because he needs to be right there to make the corrections, physically move you into the correct position if need be.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Where is the difference
between watching him do his stuff in the video and standing next to him when he does the same stuff?

There's a HUGE difference between watching a video and having in person instruction. For starters, the video can't correct you when you have incorrect or bad technique. Videos usually leave out the context of why a technique is done a specific way. When you are learning from a person that can interact with you, then you'll get explanations that other wise wouldn't come out.
I'll use this video for example:

What you don't hear in the video is how to make a correct fist for Wing Chun, you don't hear anything about the importance of keeping the elbows down and towards the center, you don't hear anything about developing power from the root. The video only covers one thing which is how to punch without hurting your elbows and that a relaxed punch is more powerful than a tense one. If you had a chance to interact with this guy, he probably would have told you that most people injure their elbows because the energy of the punch is exiting through the elbow and not the fist. if they put a coin in the crease of their elbow, the coin would shoot upwards instead of forwards.

 

[MAfreak]

he means to see if the instructor in the video respectively his techniques are good,
so he can chose one to check out his class and not end up in a mcdojo. not to learn a martial art by watching videos.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Let's say I go to this very teacher and see him in real life what exactly does this change? Where is the difference
between watching him do his stuff in the video and standing next to him when he does the same stuff?
Then I still have NO clue if it's good or not.

First what everyone else is saying in regards to the quality of learning that you get. Second, for evaluating him, it gives you the option to actually talk to him. He can explain to you directly why you need to do certain things, rather than you guessing (or posting it here, getting biased opinions based on our own arts, and the same lecture each time to not learn online). If what he says makes sense, and you can see him/his students progressing, chances are he is a good teacher. You cant check that in a video.

 

[Wing Chun Auckland]

At the beginning he did that weird head grab throw thing that Emin does a lot. I don't see how it would work. Anyone ever had someone do it on them before?

 

[Wing Chun Auckland]

Minute 0:28.....

 

[geezer]

At the beginning he did that weird head grab throw thing that Emin does a lot. I don't see how it would work. Anyone ever had someone do it on them before?

Yeah, Emin pulls it off, at least in demos. Seems an unlikely move in a serious contest against a resisting opponent of similar size, strength and ability. Being tall with long lanky arms has gotta help. It would never work for me ....even in a demo!

 

[kehcorpz]

Well I guess if I ask a teacher why he does it the way he does he will always have an "explanation" but this doesn't mean he's right.

Here's one example.

Look at what this guy here teaches around 0:34. He says do NOT press upward.

But now compare it to what the other guy does in this video at 1:19! It's totally different.
He uses much more force against the wooden arms and really hits them
and he also pushes upwards against them!

Now who of these 2 is right?
Who has the right technique? They cannot both be right.
I also remember another video I watched with dominick izzo where he was showing
stuff on a dummy and he also said that you do not try to hit the arms cause this hurts.
he said when you do it right it doesn't hurt. my impression was that it's not about pushing
against the arms like crazy but that it's more like slightly touching the arms in order to deflect
them but you're always moving your own arms towards the center. If you push upwards against the
arms then you're not going at the center. :/


The first one comes across like a wise guy but he seems gentle and you cant really tell how strong he is.
The other guy comes across strong and usually one would think that he would probably win against the wise guy.
But what if the wise guy would totally defeat him simply because he has better form?!

----

or look at this here. this guy also says that it should be 1 movement not 2 movements.
what do you think about what he does at 6:45? is this good stuff or bad stuff?

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Now who of these 2 is right?
Who has the right technique? They cannot both be right.

I have not watched your videos, because there is no need to. What I quoted is the issue you keep having. You keep assuming there is one 'right' or best technique. That is not true. Each technique has its own purpose, and different people will teach differently, even in the same style (especially as varied as Wing Chun). Go find a teacher. That is the only way you will learn, and if you feel as if the teacher is not teaching you anything, leave, or test it with someone from a different style. All this video searching that you are doing is only preventing you from learning.

 

[kehcorpz]

Each technique has its own purpose, and different people will teach differently, even in the same style (especially as varied as Wing Chun). Go find a teacher. That is the only way you will learn, and if you feel as if the teacher is not teaching you anything, leave, or test it with someone from a different style. All this video searching that you are doing is only preventing you from learning.

But this sounds so vague as if you can basically do it in any way you want to cause you cant say that any technique is better or worse than another. sounds like political correctness talk.

A person who does wing chun and knows how it originally looks like should be able to say wether a video demonstration is good or bad.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Well I guess if I ask a teacher why he does it the way he does he will always have an "explanation" but this doesn't mean he's right.

Here's one example.

Look at what this guy here teaches around 0:34. He says do NOT press upward.

But now compare it to what the other guy does in this video at 1:19! It's totally different.
He uses much more force against the wooden arms and really hits them
and he also pushes upwards against them!

Now who of these 2 is right?
Who has the right technique? They cannot both be right.
I also remember another video I watched with dominick izzo where he was showing
stuff on a dummy and he also said that you do not try to hit the arms cause this hurts.
he said when you do it right it doesn't hurt. my impression was that it's not about pushing
against the arms like crazy but that it's more like slightly touching the arms in order to deflect
them but you're always moving your own arms towards the center. If you push upwards against the
arms then you're not going at the center. :/


The first one comes across like a wise guy but he seems gentle and you cant really tell how strong he is.
The other guy comes across strong and usually one would think that he would probably win against the wise guy.
But what if the wise guy would totally defeat him simply because he has better form?!

----

or look at this here. this guy also says that it should be 1 movement not 2 movements.
what do you think about what he does at 6:45? is this good stuff or bad stuff?

Keep in mind that one technique can have 10 different applications. This is what I like about kung fu. I don't need to learn how to do 10 different things. I only need to learn how to do 1 thing and apply it 10 different ways. 2 different people can show the same technique with 2 different ways and both cab be correct. In terms of the videos you posted the technique in the first one is supposed to hyper extend the elbows. Usually when someone chokes you from the front its with outstretched arms. The technique would be done before the choking began. The same technique can be done with one hand. If some is reaching out to push you. It can also be done as a counter to a jab. In all cases it hyper extends the elbow when the arm is extended. I've never seen it done the way the first video shows it.

 

[kehcorpz]

I've never seen it done the way the first video shows it.

Does this mean that the wise guy doesnt teach good stuff?
This is really discouraging.

Why are there no wing chun tutorials done by people with reputation where you can be sure
that they show proper form? this way you would at least see how it should look like. this would
be worth something cause then you could tell if something is different.

 

[JowGaWolf]

It just means that I haven't seen that technique done that way. I can't look at one technique and assume that he doesn't know anything.

Trying to use that technique on a guard
Would put you at high risk for being punched in the face so don't try it that way. The way that I try to understand techniques is to think of how to apply it to someone outside my fighting system. I would then test it to see if I have the correct theory about applying it. This is part of understanding how a technique works, it's limitations, and the risks. If the technique puts you at high risks then the question becomes. "Am I using in the correct scenario. The good news is that there are many videos showing the technique and you can pick the one that seems to be practical.

 

[geezer]

@kehcorpz -- You can complain all you want about how teachers or coaches contradict each other. That's just the way it is.

You have to go and work with different people in person and use your best critical judgement. When you find a good teacher, stick with him or her for a while. If it works out, great. If not, you find another teacher/coach who you think is better. Boxers do that, wrestlers do that, MMA people do that, karate and kung-fu people do that.

...or you can keep surfing the web, hanging out and complaining on forums like this, maybe even buy some dvds or online instruction, and wind up just being another foolish follower of "Sifu Youtube". I won't argue with you. It's your choice.

 

[Wing Chun Auckland]

Yep, it's not just political correctness to say that there is more than one correct way to do something. This really messes with your head until you accept it. For a while I was training in two different lineages at the same time. The way learned in each different school always worked best in the context that they practiced in. It always did my head in and I spent a long time thinking about it. This has happened to me time and time again. But what it does do is make you think, question and analyze. This is really good.