What do you expect students to do outside of class?

[skribs]

There's only so much class time to go around. At the very least, you're most likely going to drill techniques by yourself or with a partner, and then you're going to roll or spar. You may do a number of other things, including forms, one-steps, discussion, physical conditioning (strength, cardio, flexibility).

There are some things that are definitely done better in the school. You have more people to spar with, and a better place to spar. You have feedback from your instructors on your techniques. You have other people to help you remember the forms or one-steps that you use.

Other things are probably done better outside the school. Even if you had the equipment, a lot of martial artists have great understanding of the art, but aren't great at teaching physical conditioning. But the boxing gym or the mat isn't going to be the best place to go for a run or pump iron, unless you also have S&C equipment in your school.

I'm curious, based on class time, resources, and curriculum, what other people expect their students to do outside of class, or what they are expected to do outside of class.

At my school, we expect students to practice anything that's to be memorized, drill techniques (especially those you're struggling with), and to work on conditioning.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

At my school, we expect students to practice anything that's to be memorized, drill techniques (especially those you're struggling with), and to work on conditioning.

Do you expect this, or do you hope it will happen/suggest it to them? In my old school (with kids) we would encourage them to practice combinations (think 1/2step sparring drills), and forms. When they'd get around 10+ start encouraging them to do exercise as well. But the main focus outside of class was on respect/self-discipline/self-control, and ensuring they are practicing those in their every day life (which IMO is MA related since those can help you be more focused on training later in life).

I expected that they would practice combinations if they had involved parents, probably not exercise, and I expected that they'd be respectful of others. Outside of that I didn't expect that they actually did anything.

 

[skribs]

Do you expect this, or do you hope it will happen/suggest it to them? In my old school (with kids) we would encourage them to practice combinations (think 1/2step sparring drills), and forms. When they'd get around 10+ start encouraging them to do exercise as well. But the main focus outside of class was on respect/self-discipline/self-control, and ensuring they are practicing those in their every day life (which IMO is MA related since those can help you be more focused on training later in life).

I expected that they would practice combinations if they had involved parents, probably not exercise, and I expected that they'd be respectful of others. Outside of that I didn't expect that they actually did anything.

Our combinations are rote-memorized and required for the test, so they're reminded to practice them every class.

We primarily encourage the other stuff if there's a big deficit. If a kid looks more like a V than a ___ when they do their splits, we recommend they stretch at home, for example.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Our combinations are rote-memorized and required for the test, so they're reminded to practice them every class.

We primarily encourage the other stuff if there's a big deficit. If a kid looks more like a V than a ___ when they do their splits, we recommend they stretch at home, for example.

Yup, thats what we did to. I just didn't actually expect kids to practice their techs outside of class unless i knew the parents were involved. Im also fairly cynical though. And kids don't realize how obvious it is when they aren't practicing.

 

[oftheherd1]

When I first started studying Hapkido, I did some practice outside the school. I didn't have someone to practice with, but I was building up muscle memory. The further I progressed the less I did that; partly lazyness and work/family demands, and partly I had a lot of muscle memory built up already I thought.

It wasn't required and I don't know what others did.

 

[skribs]

When I first started studying Hapkido, I did some practice outside the school. I didn't have someone to practice with, but I was building up muscle memory. The further I progressed the less I did that; partly lazyness and work/family demands, and partly I had a lot of muscle memory built up already I thought.

It wasn't required and I don't know what others did.

I think it's easier to practice striking arts than grappling arts on your own, too. It's a lot easier to imagine the striking than the grappling. In a sparring situation, there's a lot less contact in striking than grappling, making it less unrealistic when you practice on your own.

 

[Danny T]

what do others expect their students to do outside of class, or what they are expected to do outside of class.

What age group is your expectations for?
What level of training is your expectation for?
What is the individual training for...what is that person's goal in training?

Kids...I have little expectation as to extra training.
Teens and adults...what are their goal for training and what it the time line for their goal?

Over the 4 decades I've been teaching in my experience very few spend much time training outside of the scheduled class time. That includes all age groups. Some do, but the majority don't.

You stated

At my school, we expect students to practice anything that's to be memorized, drill techniques (especially those you're struggling with), and to work on conditioning.

You "expect"...just what does that mean? That you reasonable believe that students will practice at home? Do most actually do so? Or is it that you required them to practice at home? What are the repercussions or consequences when that requirement isn't fulfilled?

 

[isshinryuronin]

Four things come to mind re: MA related work outside of class. These are things I do on a regular basis.

1. Practice forms. I usually do about 12-15 forms/wk at home. This fits into any schedule. Even while watching TV, I will do a few forms during the commercials.
2. Physical conditioning. A good run 3 mornings/wk. Go to the gym 3 times/wk for a 45 min. weight workout, quickly going from one exercise to another to also work cardio.
3. Read. There are many good books on the history and philosophy of MA. This is often info not covered in class. The serious martial artist should take to heart the idea of bunbu ichi, pen and sword. They are two sides of the same coin. Readings should be mandatory for advanced rank.
4. Explore the internet. Youtube has an (over) abundance of forms and techniques. Some are actually worthwhile. Content should be discussed with the instructor as to the validity or relevance of the material.

These four have been listed in order (by coincidence or subconscious intent) of the student's age/skill level. #1 is good for everyone. #2 for teens and adults. #3 for older teens on up and intermediate ranked. #4 for older and intermediate/advanced students. The reason for the age/rank qualifications is that students can become confused or pick up bad habits if they are not experienced enough to filter thru the crap or properly understand and interpret the content.

 

[skribs]

You "expect"...just what does that mean? That you reasonable believe that students will practice at home? Do most actually do so? Or is it that you required them to practice at home? What are the repercussions or consequences when that requirement isn't fulfilled?

That we believe they do.

The ones that don't progress a lot slower.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

My expectation changes based on the situation. I don't spend a lot of class time on the forms, so I have a stated expectation that they'll do them outside of class. Since my current classes are only once a week, I also have some stated exercise expectations. I only teach adults (and teens, theoretically, though I've never had any sign up), and I state the expectations clearly, some in the manual I give when they join. I teach with those expectations, and let them struggle with forms, for instance, if they haven't practiced them in the 3 weeks since we last added new moves. Each time they demonstrate they've not been practicing, I remind them that they need to practice some at home, and suggest how to do so in 5-minute snatches of time.

Since part of the point of the training is to develop/improve some specific life skills, and the forms are not at all necessary to the fight training, I'm comfortable letting someone be bad at them as long as they want. It will delay their promotion (one new 10-step form is required at each rank), but that's entirely in their hands, and promotions take a long time to get to, in any case.

 

[Yokozuna514]

What age group is your expectations for?
What level of training is your expectation for?
What is the individual training for...what is that person's goal in training?

Kids...I have little expectation as to extra training.
Teens and adults...what are their goal for training and what it the time line for their goal?

Over the 4 decades I've been teaching in my experience very few spend much time training outside of the scheduled class time. That includes all age groups. Some do, but the majority don't.

You stated

You "expect"...just what does that mean? That you reasonable believe that students will practice at home? Do most actually do so? Or is it that you required them to practice at home? What are the repercussions or consequences when that requirement isn't fulfilled?

Well said, Danny. We give our students the opportunity to go to special focused classes to train certain aspects of interest but not everyone takes the opportunity consistently. People have many reasons to train depending on their age and ability. The majority train as a hobby to get/stay in shape to be part of social group focused on an area of interest that will keep them fit and disciplined if they attend regularly. They may not progress to an elite level with this level of commitment but not everyone wants to be elite either. The school and its instructors should be able to recognize what your goals are and help show you the best way to get there.

 

[Danny T]

That we believe they do.

Do you really 'believe' that most students do so or is it more you strongly suggest and hope that they will?

The ones that don't progress a lot slower.

Truth for the most part. However, progress is being made; correct?
And that progress may well be what that individual is looking for. I really don't expect my students to push to excel based upon my expectation or my goals. While I encourage students to do extra training/practice and love it when they do I don't expect it to happen.

 

[skribs]

Do you really 'believe' that most students do so or is it more you strongly suggest and hope that they will?

Suggest and hope they will.

My Master's curriculum is largely based on memorization, I think the biggest reason is to trick people into practicing at home. (If you go over and over so you can memorize which combination is #5, #6, etc. you will practice the techniques).

 

[Flying Crane]

I don't currently have any students, but I've been thinking about seeing if I can get a training group going. I've recently moved away from the San Francisco area, and there is far less martial arts, and particularly far less Chinese martial arts in my new area. So this is an interesting question to me.

If I get a group going, I suspect I only have time for one session a week, possibly two. I would assume that if someone begins training, they have a desire to improve and develop real skill. Not everyone needs to become the Best of the Best, nor wants to. But I would assume that there is still a desire to improve. In order to do so takes more than one or two sessions a week. So practicing outside of class is important, both for improvement and also for the student to take ownership of the training and make the method his/her own rather than simply something being copied.

With this in mind, I would expect a student to be practicing everything that they have been taught. We practice a method that is based on principles that work, and systematic practice is what builds that skill. We do our fundamentals in a particular way, and once that method is understood it is no stretch for someone to work on that at home. However, eventually there is room for variation here, in the sense that they don't have to do every exercise exactly the same as long as what is done is consistent with the principles. A beginning student should just stick with what has been taught. But as a student progresses, he should feel free to develop his own combinations and exercises to develop these skills. I don't practice every exercise that my sifu taught me, and I don't ask his permission to practice some exercises that I have created for myself. I would teach these to my students because these exercises inform my own understanding, and that is what I would need to teach. Eventually my own students would not necessarily practice every exercise that I teach them, and likewise they may come up with their own methods. But what is important is that they continue to practice methods that develop these skills, as long as the methods are consistent with the principles upon which our system is built.

In a striking art like my own, impact training is important (obviously). I can teach them how to go about practicing on a heavy bag. Again, a beginner should stick to what has been shown, but eventually he ought to be able to improvise and create his own combinations and exercises on the heavy bag. The caveat is that not everyone has a good place to hang a heavy bag, so sometimes this aspect can get neglected.

I would expect a student to practice the forms that they have been taught, keeping as true to the form as possible. But eventually it becomes ok to even modify the forms to some degree. These are not sacred exercises passed down to us by the gods. These were developed by people, and they can be changed, although I hold that most people should not be looking to change them. Most people should strive to stay as true to what they have been taught as possible.

Application requires a training partner, and students should be encouraged to get together outside of class to work on applications, taking segments from the forms and working on applications with the fundamentals. This is not always compatible with busy schedules and personal lives, but when possible, it is to be encouraged.

So that is what I expect someone to practice outside of class, if they desire to develop real skill. If they do not spend time outside of class, they will quickly reach a plateau beyond which they will not develop. Trying to learn more material will cause them to forget what they have already learned, because they don't practice any of it with enough repetition.

If someone just wants to get some exercise once or twice a week, then I can run them through an exhausting routine of basics and leave it at that. If that is all they want, they don't need to practice anything at home. But neither will they really learn much, other than how to follow a leader and mimic some movement. But it's great exercise.

 

[oftheherd1]

I think it's easier to practice striking arts than grappling arts on your own, too. It's a lot easier to imagine the striking than the grappling. In a sparring situation, there's a lot less contact in striking than grappling, making it less unrealistic when you practice on your own.

I agree generally. But I think with practice and concentration, one can make grappling as an individual, work well. Re-reading what you said, that may have been what you meant.

I can no longer comment much on striking arts, except to the extent that many of our techniques end with a strike or kick.

 

[skribs]

I agree generally. But I think with practice and concentration, one can make grappling as an individual, work well. Re-reading what you said, that may have been what you meant.

I can no longer comment much on striking arts, except to the extent that many of our techniques end with a strike or kick.

It depends a lot on the person, too. I have a very vivid imagination, so I can get quite a bit by practicing alone. Others it's a complete crap-shoot.

It also depends on what you're working on. It's hard to practice finding pressure points on your own, or to troubleshoot your problems with a technique when you only have air resisting it.

 

[advfhorn]

my goju ryu dojo:
- kihon waza (basic technique) - whatever that means for the level you are at
- kata (past and present) - you better be able to do all you have studied when you are so physically and mentally tired you shake and cannot think
- strength (pushup, situps, pullups etc)
- combos (which you also get by pulling apart your kata
- vocabulary - if you are like me and cannot remember it unless you use it

Shorin Ryu dojo - I have never left these classes wondering what I should or /better work on before I come back. Matter of fact I more had anxiety going back without having practiced something. Basically if a sensei took their time to show me something, I better darn well have practiced it - lol

 

[Buka]

I always had a different slant on the question of what was expected outside of class.

I expect them to be ladies and gentlemen in every sense of the words. I expect them to be true to their family and friends, aware of their surroundings at all times, eat as well as they can, get enough sleep when they can, generally stay out of trouble and continue to learn everything they can about everything. And when I say "stay out of trouble" the majority of our students were young men. And we all know how young men can be.

Some people reading this might say what they do on their own time is none of my business. That's fine and dandy, but if you trained under us it became our business. Especially where we were, it could be a tough town. I also like to point out to people that if you train with us you're going to be learning things that are physically applied in self defense situations, fights, combat etc. You can be damn straight I'm making it my business as to how you behave.

As for physical exercise/Martial training - we taught our students how to work out on their own for the days they couldn't make it to the dojo.This would vary from student to student. And for them to feel free to come to the dojo in any off hours - it was always open, there was always somebody there and there was no added fee to come down and work out.

As for the working out itself....if you have enough left in the tank to work out outside of class, more power to you. But I sure as heck wouldn't bet on it.

 

[isshinryuronin]

Basically if a sensei took their time to show me something, I better darn well have practiced it -

As a young man, I was in a position that allowed me to be taught several private lessons by Ed Parker. To be honest, as a black belt in another style and a little stupid (being 22 and full of myself), I did not fully appreciate the situation and opportunity. He began to teach me a brown belt form, but went a little fast for me to absorb it all. So, I kind of blew it off and figured I'd get it down the next lesson. Next lesson comes and Parker says, "Let's see it." I had nothing to show. Needless to say, he was not happy.

I had other sensei as time went by, and was motivated largely by wanting to do well, not for my sake, but to please sensei. It was my way of showing, and earning respect. What was the difference between these and my earlier experience? Ego, maturity, loyalty (which did not have a chance to develop in my short time with Mr. Parker). As I advanced in rank, my expectations in regards to my students' appreciation of my efforts rose, and I fully understood how Parker felt - the imparting of knowledge should always be appreciated and respected. While this is almost non-existent in public schools, Martial Arts is, and should be, on a higher level.

It is understood that not all MA practitioners take their training as their number one priority, or strive to reach an elite level. Nevertheless, the lesson that the knowledge we are imparting is important and far-ranging enough to take seriously, and practiced, should be passed on to the student. That the student spends time outside the dojo training, and searches for knowledge on his own, is a measure of the sensei's skill.

 

[_Simon_]

And for them to feel free to come to the dojo in any off hours - it was always open, there was always somebody there and there was no added fee to come down and work out.

Uuuuggggghhh that sounds awesome... I'd be there all the time! When I do kata in the back area of the house, there's never enough room. An empty dojo is just... dreamy!