West Denver - Lakewood

[MamaBear2015]

If any of you are in the west Denver area - particularly Lakewood, Z-Ultimate Self Defense Studios is an excellent school with awesome teachers. I've been a student there for years.

Z-Ultimate Self Defense Studios Lakewood

 

[Tames D]

Is this franchise the same as, or affiliated with, the USSD (United Studios of Self Defense) franchise? They seem to have the same business model.
Also, the USSD school that was in my neighborhood is now a Z Ultimate school. Just the sign changed.

 

[Azulx]

I've seen some Z Ultimate Sparring Tournament videos and they seem to be a lot of fun.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Is this franchise the same as, or affiliated with, the USSD (United Studios of Self Defense) franchise? They seem to have the same business model.
Also, the USSD school that was in my neighborhood is now a Z Ultimate school. Just the sign changed.

IIRC, they branched off from USSD under the name Z Ultimate, and tried to sue USSD. It failed, and USSD countersued for defamation and for using the same techniques under a different name, which they won. Don't recall what the original suit was for. So essentially, yes they are the same (same techniques), but no they are not affiliated with them.

My guess is that the USSD/Z Ultimate school near you was one of the ones that branched off.

This happened like 5 years ago, so its possible relations have gotten better, but I doubt it.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

There's more to that story, but as I don't live near Z Ultimate and don't want to bias the info I give from only ever hearing the one side, I'm going to stop there.

 

[MamaBear2015]

Is this franchise the same as, or affiliated with, the USSD (United Studios of Self Defense) franchise? They seem to have the same business model.
Also, the USSD school that was in my neighborhood is now a Z Ultimate school. Just the sign changed.

Yes. I went to USSD from 1998 to 2003, then left for some years. I think, around 2004, some 86 schools split from the lineage and formed Z-Ultimate. I returned in late 2014 and am at Z-Ultimate since.

 

[MamaBear2015]

I've seen some Z Ultimate Sparring Tournament videos and they seem to be a lot of fun.

Yes, and the tournaments aren't just sparring, but forms and weapons too!

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Yes. I went to USSD from 1998 to 2003, then left for some years. I think, around 2004, some 86 schools split from the lineage and formed Z-Ultimate. I returned in late 2014 and am at Z-Ultimate since.

Do your instructors say what the reason was that they switched? And are the techniques still the same from what you remember beforehand (if you remember), or have they changed significantly?

 

[Tames D]

IIRC, they branched off from USSD under the name Z Ultimate, and tried to sue USSD. It failed, and USSD countersued for defamation and for using the same techniques under a different name, which they won. Don't recall what the original suit was for. So essentially, yes they are the same (same techniques), but no they are not affiliated with them.

My guess is that the USSD/Z Ultimate school near you was one of the ones that branched off.

This happened like 5 years ago, so its possible relations have gotten better, but I doubt it.

Thanks. Interesting.

 

[Tames D]

Yes. I went to USSD from 1998 to 2003, then left for some years. I think, around 2004, some 86 schools split from the lineage and formed Z-Ultimate. I returned in late 2014 and am at Z-Ultimate since.

Thank you.

 

[Tames D]

There's more to that story, but as I don't live near Z Ultimate and don't want to bias the info I give from only ever hearing the one side, I'm going to stop there.

It would be hard NOT to live near one of their schools .

 

[MamaBear2015]

Do your instructors say what the reason was that they switched? And are the techniques still the same from what you remember beforehand (if you remember), or have they changed significantly?

No one seems interested in talking about it. I was gone something like 12 years. The forms seem mostly the same, with some changes, and various other things seem different.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Fair enough, it was more curiosity then anything else. I doubt anyone on either side would be interested in talking about it at this point.

 

[WaterGal]

I've only vaguely heard of these guys - what do they teach? Also, what's the Z for in the name? My immediate reaction was to imagine some guy with an over-the-top French accent going "we are ze ultimate self-defense school!".

 

[MamaBear2015]

Read all about it.

About Z-Ultimate Self Defense Studios

If you page down, there's history and everything. No idea why they used the Z.
Not French, though - American.

 

[WaterGal]

Hmmm. I obviously don't know anything about how they teach classes or what the techniques are. Their classes may be great. But the McDojo is strong with that one. Lots of corporate buzzwords and stuff.

I read this twice, and I still have no idea what it means:

With Sincere Pride and Appreciation of the Communities We Serve, We the Instructors of “Z” Commit to Being the Best and Most Extreme Example of Its Kind Through the Timeless Traditions, Philosophies, and Values of the Martial Arts in order to be a True Product of What We Represent.

We Further Commit, with Great Honor and Privilege, to Provide Our Respected and Valued Students the Ultimate in Personalized Martial Arts Instruction so They too may Realize the Powerful Rewards of

ULTIMATE SELF
Mind – Body – Spirit

ULTIMATE SELF DEFENSE
Classical – Practical – Tactical

ULTIMATE SELF DEFENSE STUDIOS
Proud – Personable – Professional

 

[Steve]

We have one of these franchises locally, and it doesn't make a very good first impression.

 

[MamaBear2015]

Hmmm. I obviously don't know anything about how they teach classes or what the techniques are. Their classes may be great. But the McDojo is strong with that one. Lots of corporate buzzwords and stuff.

I read this twice, and I still have no idea what it means:

From Google, I get : A McDojo is a school that teaches a watered-down and impractical form of martial arts in the name of making money.

I would totally disagree with that take on this school. I've been there a total of 6 years and it's a robust and extremely practical system. I've always gotten the impression that people use "McDojo" to describe schools other than what they like and/or are used to. If you get that impression from their site, it just may be because the people who designed it were doing a glossy marketing impression. But my opinion from actually experiencing the school and system for 6 years, is that the system is complete and the teachers are extremely intelligent and talented at what they do, and they thoroughly enjoy doing it.

As far as making money, I don't expect people who provide what I think is an extremely valuable program, ( which has, by the way, saved my life, in more ways than one ) to do so for free, or by, in any way sacrificing themselves to do it. In fact, I hope they do well with it.

 

[WaterGal]

From Google, I get : A McDojo is a school that teaches a watered-down and impractical form of martial arts in the name of making money.

Eh, I'd describe it more as a certain type of business model for running a school, one that's concerned first and foremost about maximizing profits. McDojos often end up teaching a watered-down program, because it's easier to do it that way and most people don't know better, but I wouldn't consider that a necessary feature of one.

There are certain hallmarks of a McDojo. A huge one that I see here is their instructor development program. It says, on the linked site, that basically anyone can become a Z Ultimate teacher, even if they're not a black belt and have no teaching experience, they just have to shell out some cash to take an instructor training course. That kind of approach, to be blunt, is I think a large part of how you end up with watered-down programs.

Beyond that, McDojos tend to use a lot of cheesy buzzwords and slogans to try to make their school sound extra-impressive, which is more what was I getting at with my last comment.

 

[MamaBear2015]

Eh, I'd describe it more as a certain type of business model for running a school, one that's concerned first and foremost about maximizing profits. McDojos often end up teaching a watered-down program, because it's easier to do it that way and most people don't know better, but I wouldn't consider that a necessary feature of one.

There are certain hallmarks of a McDojo. A huge one that I see here is their instructor development program. It says, on the linked site, that basically anyone can become a Z Ultimate teacher, even if they're not a black belt and have no teaching experience, they just have to shell out some cash to take an instructor training course. That kind of approach, to be blunt, is I think a large part of how you end up with watered-down programs.

It's not like that at all. The instructor training is intensive and exacting. They get every detail of the system and can only teach ranks below their current rank. For example, the teacher at my school is Blue-Green now, and he can only teach general classes where new material isn't being taught. I'm a Second Brown, and a Second Black comes in for my half hour lesson, which covers new material, every week, and teaches me and the other ranks that are above the Sensei who's running the general classes. So the system is great, AND, I might add, the Sensei who teaches the general classes and is only at Blue-Green so far, is an incredibly intelligent guy and has an amazing knowledge of detail from his Academy classes that he attends every week. Those classes are also helping him to advance faster, because they nail all his material perfectly. So you can't accurately "judge a book by its cover", and I stand by my opinion of this, as being a great school.

I should know. I started there in 1998, stayed there 4-1/2 years, then left and tried about half a dozen other schools. But it was like "looking for love in all the wrong places". I kept judging them all in terms of this school, and none came close.So in October 2014, I returned here, and it's given me what I need and look for in a school - ALL of it.