Z-Ultimate and United Studios of Self Defense

[Gerry Seymour]

You can't fool me, I've seen golf on telly.

It was said that golf is a way to ruin a good walk - I disagree though, it looks like a pretty poor walk to me

That said, I did have golf fun once - one golf stick and a bagful of out of date coleslaw...

If you've watched golf on telly, you've seen nothing resembling the golf I play. They're playing competitive golf. I play self-defense golf.

No, seriously, it's like the damned course is out to get me. So I fight back.

 

[pdg]

If you've watched golf on telly, you've seen nothing resembling the golf I play. They're playing competitive golf. I play self-defense golf.

No, seriously, it's like the damned course is out to get me. So I fight back.

"Watched" is a very strong term...

I was doing some sewing the other night while the wife was watching inane nonsense, then she left the room and left the telly on - it was maybe half an hour before the mention of handicapped birds* suffering from crossed winds sitting on bogies* (I'm sure it was something like that) registered.


(* Look up the colloquial British usage of these terms.)

 

[Flying Crane]

I was and am speaking from a business perspective only. It has to be assumed that our market sample size only consists of consumers who are actively looking for a leisure activity.
My response was to the OP who stated karate and MMA are apples and oranges. I was pointing out that from a business perspective a karate school is in competition with all leisure activities. The major factors that will sway the consumer from karate to MMA is marketing, public opinion trends and amenities including price and value. The old school 1980s karate school has no advantage in any catagory except maybe price but a smart consumer measures price to value not just price.

I understand but I disagree with your presumption. A karate school is not in competition for everyone looking for a leisure activity. A karate school is in competition for everyone who might want to learn karate, even if those people have not themselves decided that is what they want.

I have no interest in tennis. I would not play tennis nor get tennis instruction even if I was unable to train martial arts. Likewise, I have no interest in MMA nor BJJ, and I would not pursue that instruction even if it was the only martial training available to me.

My point is, all leisure activities are not the same, and someone who might join one might not automatically join a different one if that was the only option. Different schools offering different instruction are not automatically competing for the same clients.

I recently floated the idea in my community of offering Kung fu instruction. I’ve got about ten people who have expressed interest. There is a well established MMA school that also offers instruction in BJJ, karate, JKD, capoeira and I think maybe Kali. There is also a Kuk Sool Won school, and a USSD Kempo school. These people do not go to any of those schools. If it was all the same to them, then they would have joined one of those schools. Apparently they are interested in the possibility of Kung fu.

One of the guys mentioned that he had some karate training in the past, but felt the teacher was not a good match for him. So he is interested in a different possibility.

These are examples that illustrate my point. All schools are not automatically competing for the same clients. Someone who would come to me for instruction is not automatically a lost student to the other schools.

 

[Flying Crane]

I think he makes a fair point, FC. Kids' parents have a limited budget and time allotment for activities. Every activity they sign up for makes it less likely they choose the kids' TKD class or whatever. Same for adults, with some different dynamics. The more time I spend training MA, the less time I spend playing golf. So, in a very significant way, MA is competing with golf, tennis, hiking, etc.

See my reply to Hoshin above.

 

[hoshin1600]

I understand but I disagree with your presumption. A karate school is not in competition for everyone looking for a leisure activity. A karate school is in competition for everyone who might want to learn karate, even if those people have not themselves decided that is what they want.

I have no interest in tennis. I would not play tennis nor get tennis instruction even if I was unable to train martial arts. Likewise, I have no interest in MMA nor BJJ, and I would not pursue that instruction even if it was the only martial training available to me.

My point is, all leisure activities are not the same, and someone who might join one might not automatically join a different one if that was the only option. Different schools offering different instruction are not automatically competing for the same clients.

I recently floated the idea in my community of offering Kung fu instruction. I’ve got about ten people who have expressed interest. There is a well established MMA school that also offers instruction in BJJ, karate, JKD, capoeira and I think maybe Kali. There is also a Kuk Sool Won school, and a USSD Kempo school. These people do not go to any of those schools. If it was all the same to them, then they would have joined one of those schools. Apparently they are interested in the possibility of Kung fu.

One of the guys mentioned that he had some karate training in the past, but felt the teacher was not a good match for him. So he is interested in a different possibility.

These are examples that illustrate my point. All schools are not automatically competing for the same clients. Someone who would come to me for instruction is not automatically a lost student to the other schools.

Good points. I just look at it differently. They are all my future customers they just don't know it yet. It's up to my marketing and sales to convince them this is where they WANT to be.

 

[drop bear]

That's like comparing tennis and hockey. MMA is a sport.

Tennis and hockey are both sports.

 

[drop bear]

I'd guess it's just as likely for someone to go to an MMA school for any of the reasons they'd come to my program (except competition - they'd be crazy to come to me for that).

If I did not care about the martial art one way or another and just looked at the services provided. And then looked at a decent MMA gym. I would get more bang for buck generally.

Lets look at courage in Townsville.
Boxing Townsville | Martial Arts | Courage Training Centre

Now I can learn 4 different systems and fitness instruction,weight loss, nutrition. From legitimate ranked instructors. Plus seminars. Plus social events.
(They did a high fall stunt course)


I can train every day.

I have access to competitions in different disciplines depending on what would suit me.

And these styles transport. So if I go to another gym. I walk in there at the level I left the old one.

And better equipment. And self defence.


As oposed to one style by one guy who may be three times a week that once I leave. Nobody cares about. I cant walk my karate black belt in to Barrys karate advanced class as easily. My BJJ black belt is a black belt in every style of BJJ.

So I would have to be invested in learning a style specifically because I wanted to learn it. Rather than just learning martial arts.

 

[Flying Crane]

Good points. I just look at it differently. They are all my future customers they just don't know it yet. It's up to my marketing and sales to convince them this is where they WANT to be.

Fair enough. Different philosophy I guess. I’ve never been accused of being a good business man.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

"Watched" is a very strong term...

I was doing some sewing the other night while the wife was watching inane nonsense, then she left the room and left the telly on - it was maybe half an hour before the mention of handicapped birds* suffering from crossed winds sitting on bogies* (I'm sure it was something like that) registered.


(* Look up the colloquial British usage of these terms.)

I'm fully competent to translate British. I've read Harry Potter.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I understand but I disagree with your presumption. A karate school is not in competition for everyone looking for a leisure activity. A karate school is in competition for everyone who might want to learn karate, even if those people have not themselves decided that is what they want.

I have no interest in tennis. I would not play tennis nor get tennis instruction even if I was unable to train martial arts. Likewise, I have no interest in MMA nor BJJ, and I would not pursue that instruction even if it was the only martial training available to me.

My point is, all leisure activities are not the same, and someone who might join one might not automatically join a different one if that was the only option. Different schools offering different instruction are not automatically competing for the same clients.

I recently floated the idea in my community of offering Kung fu instruction. I’ve got about ten people who have expressed interest. There is a well established MMA school that also offers instruction in BJJ, karate, JKD, capoeira and I think maybe Kali. There is also a Kuk Sool Won school, and a USSD Kempo school. These people do not go to any of those schools. If it was all the same to them, then they would have joined one of those schools. Apparently they are interested in the possibility of Kung fu.

One of the guys mentioned that he had some karate training in the past, but felt the teacher was not a good match for him. So he is interested in a different possibility.

These are examples that illustrate my point. All schools are not automatically competing for the same clients. Someone who would come to me for instruction is not automatically a lost student to the other schools.

Those activities might not be options for you, but they are for some. And that's the point. If we take the total population of an area, then identify the likely population for MA (let's stick with adults, so 18-35 YO is probably the key demographic I'd guess), other activities are options for a large portion of those folks. If they like to perform in theatre, they'll be less likely to commit time to a MA program. There's nothing at all similar about those activities, but they are still competing for the same people in some instances.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

If I did not care about the martial art one way or another and just looked at the services provided. And then looked at a decent MMA gym. I would get more bang for buck generally.

Lets look at courage in Townsville.
Boxing Townsville | Martial Arts | Courage Training Centre

Now I can learn 4 different systems and fitness instruction,weight loss, nutrition. From legitimate ranked instructors. Plus seminars. Plus social events.
(They did a high fall stunt course)


I can train every day.

I have access to competitions in different disciplines depending on what would suit me.

And these styles transport. So if I go to another gym. I walk in there at the level I left the old one.

And better equipment. And self defence.


As oposed to one style by one guy who may be three times a week that once I leave. Nobody cares about. I cant walk my karate black belt in to Barrys karate advanced class as easily. My BJJ black belt is a black belt in every style of BJJ.

So I would have to be invested in learning a style specifically because I wanted to learn it. Rather than just learning martial arts.

Agreed. If I used 4 Season (where Tony teaches) as an example, I don't know what they charge there, but it's a fantastic place to go play. If I were starting (or starting again) today, someplace like that would be very appealing. Of course, that's comparing a small program with one set of classes to a large MMA gym with several programs. If I had the place I want, it'd be a lot more like the MMA gym, including multiple arts and instructors, lots of classes to choose from, etc. That's my point - there's not so much difference in selection for most people between choosing MMA and what I do (again, assuming they aren't looking specifically for competition). Compare my program to a small MMA program with a single instructor/coach, and if someone doesn't have an existing preference, they might choose either.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

If I used 4 Season (where Tony teaches) as an example, I don't know what they charge there

Last time I checked, it was $100/month for unlimited classes (6-7 days per week, depending on whether the Sunday class is currently running). There are cheaper plans available for people who come less often.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Last time I checked, it was $100/month for unlimited classes (6-7 days per week, depending on whether the Sunday class is currently running). There are cheaper plans available for people who come less often.

Man, that's a value. Back when I was training all the time, I was probably paying $120 or more a month, and we didn't have the kind of selection you guys have there.