Very cool Hapkido video!!

Buka

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I don't think there's anything special about training in the country of origin, from an intensity standpoint, or even necessarily from a depth of understanding. In some cases, there is greater depth of understanding (higher concentration of highly experienced practitioners) and in other cases there's just more adherence to the traditional methods (which may be good or may not). And intensity can vary by culture (which may favor the country of origin or not) and by school/instructor.

I agree, mostly. I think a person is better off in the country of origin if they study American Karate. :)

Although I doubt it's taught anywhere else.
 
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adamr01

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I don't think there's anything special about training in the country of origin, from an intensity standpoint, or even necessarily from a depth of understanding. In some cases, there is greater depth of understanding (higher concentration of highly experienced practitioners) and in other cases there's just more adherence to the traditional methods (which may be good or may not). And intensity can vary by culture (which may favor the country of origin or not) and by school/instructor.
Here in the US, a lot of schools adjust their intensity due to the potential for injuries, and the risk of lawsuits. To your point that intensity can vary by culture, training abroad can provide an experience free of those concerns, which can be jarring for Americans used to safer training environments. You may recall a TV series called "Fight Quest", in which they follow 2 guys who train in a given art for a week in their countries of origin. I thought they did a good job giving you a taste of what training in a martial art in the country the art came from would be like. Sometimes, like in the case of the Krav Maga episode, the training seemed particularly intense because they train over there like they are at war. I don't think a school like that would last long in the US.
 

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I agree with the above post, the same is becoming true in the uk, martial arts as a business, has very few government regulations, the threat of civil court action, which would result in compensation, means training is becoming more risk assessed, and adapted to manage the said risks.
 

wab25

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I meant to get back to this thread sooner... but with my real job and then vacation... I got side tracked...

With a lot of the "floating throws", it's pretty clear they work from the point where the actual throw is. The problem is the complex and technical entry often required to get there. At the very least, you often bypass a couple of more useful, reliable techniques on the way.

This video (skip ahead to 34 seconds in... and I didn't actually watch his instruction, just wanted to point out the collection of throws used in competions) shows the same throw that I was practicing, and the same throw as shown in the video I included in post #10.


Note that the application of the throw in competition looks a bit different than in the demo with the compliant uke. Also note that the throw looks different, depending on the situation and the people involved. However, they are all doing that same floating throw. The entries shown in the competition versions are quite common. However, I do agree that many of the other floating throws, especially the arm whip type, do have the more complex type entries that you were talking about.

My point is that sometimes the pretty demo version of a throw can still be good practice for doing the more useful application version of that throw... you just have to allow that outcome may not look the same.
 

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Here in the US, a lot of schools adjust their intensity due to the potential for injuries, and the risk of lawsuits. To your point that intensity can vary by culture, training abroad can provide an experience free of those concerns, which can be jarring for Americans used to safer training environments. You may recall a TV series called "Fight Quest", in which they follow 2 guys who train in a given art for a week in their countries of origin. I thought they did a good job giving you a taste of what training in a martial art in the country the art came from would be like. Sometimes, like in the case of the Krav Maga episode, the training seemed particularly intense because they train over there like they are at war. I don't think a school like that would last long in the US.
My point was that it's not the origin, but things like you're pointing out here that matter. If an art starts in the US, those same advantages would still apply in other countries. And if an art has more senior practitioners in the US, that might be a better place to find high-quality partners, opponents, and instructors. Where it started will probably have a correlation, but isn't really the determining factor.
 

Gerry Seymour

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I meant to get back to this thread sooner... but with my real job and then vacation... I got side tracked...



This video (skip ahead to 34 seconds in... and I didn't actually watch his instruction, just wanted to point out the collection of throws used in competions) shows the same throw that I was practicing, and the same throw as shown in the video I included in post #10.


Note that the application of the throw in competition looks a bit different than in the demo with the compliant uke. Also note that the throw looks different, depending on the situation and the people involved. However, they are all doing that same floating throw. The entries shown in the competition versions are quite common. However, I do agree that many of the other floating throws, especially the arm whip type, do have the more complex type entries that you were talking about.

My point is that sometimes the pretty demo version of a throw can still be good practice for doing the more useful application version of that throw... you just have to allow that outcome may not look the same.
I wouldn't have included that as a "floating throw" - I think I didn't understand the term as it was used in the post I replied to.
 

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I wouldn't have included that as a "floating throw" - I think I didn't understand the term as it was used in the post I replied to.
We consider it a "floating throw" as you float uke first, before propping his foot. No "float," no throw. But, I can see the other side as well were people wouldn't consider it a "floating throw."

The main reason I chose that throw, was the availability of video for both demo / drill versions and application versions. The outcome of the drill is very different than from the application, however the things worked on in the drill are done the same way for the application.
 

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We consider it a "floating throw" as you float uke first, before propping his foot. No "float," no throw. But, I can see the other side as well were people wouldn't consider it a "floating throw."

The main reason I chose that throw, was the availability of video for both demo / drill versions and application versions. The outcome of the drill is very different than from the application, however the things worked on in the drill are done the same way for the application.
It's just not a term I'm familiar with, so when I responded, I was interpreting it differently. Thanks for the new terminology!
 

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@Tai Mantis Warrior what do you disagree with?

I dont really agree or disagree on training in other countries.. I think it might be a great experience but Im in a North American city where there are plenty of quality schools to pick from in almost any style.
I did recently speak to someone who trained in Korea who told me it was the exact same training he experienced in his home countrys dojang. Some styles, especially the southern Chinese martial arts, have a reputation (whether undeserved or not) for most of its masters being based outside China.

Loved the old school hapkido video. Probably wouldnt use those floating throws in a real fight, but it sure is fun to throw my friends around for practice.

As for your comment here:

I'm tempted to do a post on my thoughts on technique demonstration and common critique. Sort of a Myth - Fact type of post. For example:
  • Myth: This only works because your partner is compliant.
    Fact: If the partner was not compliant, I wouldn't be able to demonstrate the technique in detail.
  • Myth: This only works because your partner is not fighting back.
    Fact: Done at fighting speed (instead of detailed demonstration speed) there's less opportunity to fight back
    Fact: This is showing how the technique works, it will need to be modified based on the response of your opponent.

Basically, that in order to do a demonstration of a technique, you have to create a somewhat clinical environment in which that technique can be displayed. If I am trying to get a V-Lock and my partner keeps his wrist straight, there are certainly things I can do instead of the V-lock, but that doesn't help me demonstrate how to do a V-lock.

I couldnt agree with you more.. I clicked on the disagree by accident thats been corrected..
 
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Gerry Seymour

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That throw at 6:59 looked very painfull.
Unless I misread the motion, the stick is uninvolved until the lock after the throw (that lock doesn't look pleasant at all). The lock that leads into that throw can be pretty painful if you don't move into the fall fast enough.
 

drop bear

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I don't think there's anything special about training in the country of origin, from an intensity standpoint, or even necessarily from a depth of understanding. In some cases, there is greater depth of understanding (higher concentration of highly experienced practitioners) and in other cases there's just more adherence to the traditional methods (which may be good or may not). And intensity can vary by culture (which may favor the country of origin or not) and by school/instructor.

I think iron sharpens iron. So say Thailand for example. Top fighters from around the world go there to train with the thais. But that also means top fighters from around the world are also training there.

So the perception becomes the reality.
 

Gerry Seymour

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I think iron sharpens iron. So say Thailand for example. Top fighters from around the world go there to train with the thais. But that also means top fighters from around the world are also training there.

So the perception becomes the reality.
Where this happens, I agree. Of course, it's not the case in all instances. What's important there is that the top fighters are accumulating there. If they suddenly started gathering to study with the Irish, then Ireland would be the place to go to get that level of experience, regardless of the fact that the art originates in Thailand.
 
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