OP
OP
GouRonin
Guest
Sounds like you don't have any secret techniques... heh heh heh...
I
IFAJKD
Guest
I don't think he's a fool... Just misinformed. There seems to be alot of that. People often don't think for themselves. I did a seminar at that school while waiting I was watching a sparring class, (I was teaching trapping and boxing for the day there) and found myself laughing at the statement "this is a kill...I don't ever want to see that in sparring" man...How many people are walking around believing that @#!%. ? Oh well...We can't all know the seceret stuff...That wouldn't be any fun.
Sorry about that, Jim. On reflection, my wording was a bit too harsh, especially not knowing the man. 'Misguided' would be a better word, then.
I think any 'kill' techniques would be fairly obvious to a trained person. If you need to emphasize it's a 'kill' technique, then it ain't one. I dunno. To me, that falls under the 'secret technique' crapola.
Sort of a parallel...
In an interview granted by Bill "Superfoot" Wallace, the backfist was discussed. He talked about how many martial arts systems train the backfist as a power technique. However, the first time he used one full power in a match, the guy kept coming, causing Wallace to laugh. In other words, he was trained the backfist as almost a finishing blow, when in really it was nothing more than a jab. That being said, I'm sure there are some people with a backfist capable of shattering skulls. You could probably see the wind up for that strike from a mile away, though.
Basically, this and the 'kill' technique Jim mentioned can illustrate how some instructors just don't know what they're talking about, because they've never used their skills for real before.
Damn. I do tend to ramble on, don't I?
Cthulhu
I think any 'kill' techniques would be fairly obvious to a trained person. If you need to emphasize it's a 'kill' technique, then it ain't one. I dunno. To me, that falls under the 'secret technique' crapola.
Sort of a parallel...
In an interview granted by Bill "Superfoot" Wallace, the backfist was discussed. He talked about how many martial arts systems train the backfist as a power technique. However, the first time he used one full power in a match, the guy kept coming, causing Wallace to laugh. In other words, he was trained the backfist as almost a finishing blow, when in really it was nothing more than a jab. That being said, I'm sure there are some people with a backfist capable of shattering skulls. You could probably see the wind up for that strike from a mile away, though.
Basically, this and the 'kill' technique Jim mentioned can illustrate how some instructors just don't know what they're talking about, because they've never used their skills for real before.
Damn. I do tend to ramble on, don't I?
Cthulhu
OP
OP
GouRonin
Guest
I prefer to turn my backfists into hammer fists. Just a preference.
Backfists can be effective if you have the speed and accuracy to place them well. I usually like to target the zygomatic arch (cheekbone) or brow. Those sole purpose would be to open up a cut...definitely not going for a KO.
Usually, I'd only strike to the head with open-hand strikes...primarily eye gouges. Maybe spearhands or cuts to the throat. Palm heel strikes to the nose. Generally, open-hand strikes are faster and you don't risk injuring your hand if you miss and hit the skull.
However, when sparring, you're usually wearing gloves and your opponent may have headgear, so then punching to the head is relatively harmless.
Cthulhu
curious to see if the Capt. Kirk two-hand chop works in real combat
Usually, I'd only strike to the head with open-hand strikes...primarily eye gouges. Maybe spearhands or cuts to the throat. Palm heel strikes to the nose. Generally, open-hand strikes are faster and you don't risk injuring your hand if you miss and hit the skull.
However, when sparring, you're usually wearing gloves and your opponent may have headgear, so then punching to the head is relatively harmless.
Cthulhu
curious to see if the Capt. Kirk two-hand chop works in real combat
OP
OP
GouRonin
Guest
They worked for Kirk.
Ok, so lets see... the capt kirk way-
1- rip shirt
2- check dead tribble toupee..
I prefer the Ric Flair chop myself.
Secret techniques - I agree... cash cow.
man, this cold is knocking my head loopy.
1- rip shirt
2- check dead tribble toupee..
I prefer the Ric Flair chop myself.
Secret techniques - I agree... cash cow.
man, this cold is knocking my head loopy.
It's supposedly a modified Judo chop. Turns into a slap at the end to a-make a big noise and b-to leave a mark. Flair trained alot with Ricky Steamboat who from what I've heard isn't too shabby on the MA side. Course, that brings up another question (new topic maybe) : How much of the "Pro" wrestling stuff is based on MA techniques? I mean, breakfalls come to mind. Some of the techniques seem similar to my >very< limited knowledge of jujitsu. Ric Flairs Figure Four for example, seems to be a modified hold. The sleeper hold also comes from MA, just tweaked for "safety". Plus several NHB guys have made splashes in the PW world - Ken Shamrock is probably the best known.
So, maybe the answer to the original thread question is - when you can make a living at it?
Just a thought.
So, maybe the answer to the original thread question is - when you can make a living at it?
Just a thought.
I
IFAJKD
Guest
This is a bit late but Bruce Lee loved that backfist. We have used it often and it is effecive. Hammer fist is great as well... The spin backfist, although not a jkd tech by any stretch is fun when used right.
I like the backfist, too! However, I would use it as a jab, not as a 'finishing' or KO blow. Spinning backfists are fun to do, but I'm hesitant to do any move that would expose my back to my opponent, no matter how brief a time. That being said, a spinning/turning back kick can be an excellent surprise technique against an in-fighter.
:cheers:
Cthulhu
:cheers:
Cthulhu
I
IFAJKD
Guest
Man...I have to say that I have used a spin back kick and when very close a jump spin back against a Thai fighter and it was done. I don't use any tech for a "finnishing" technique with the exception of headbutts. It all depends on who your'e fighting. In the trapping range with clinching, and HKE the opponent cannot conventionally kick, has no time, no room and unless they play that same range game, it really is over. things happen too fast. try to kick when you have been hit 6 times in one second and at least two of those hits are elbows with a fight ending headbutt: eek: Backfists fit so well here.
I
IFAJKD
Guest
What do you consider your finnishing moves:flame: :uzi:
OP
OP
GouRonin
Guest
I like to use submission stuff in Judo as a finisher. I know it's not part of the game plan but I like them because it's fun to see people squirm and slowly realize that're screwed. Like the other night I was in Juju Gatame and the guy thought he had me until I weaseled into the kneebar. Even then he wasn't worried because he thought I had nothing. It was only when he felt the pressure on his knee growing that he knew that he was really really %$#@ed. (note - leg locks etc are illegal in judo and I would never advocate them. Well...except if your opponent is being a dink) :shrug: Otherwise I find that a nice head butt is a good set up.
In sparring otherwise I like to get in close and use a lot of elbows while using my hands to tie up. Knees too.
In sparring otherwise I like to get in close and use a lot of elbows while using my hands to tie up. Knees too.
Hurm...'finishing' move may be a bad term to use. Maybe a 'telling' blow may be better. Basically, any move that either:
a) knocks the guy out (I could also say kill, but I won't )
b) severely injures the opponent so that he/she can't continue fighting. Think busted knee or elbow.
c) stuns the opponent long enough to do either (a) or (b)
What would accomplish the above three really depends on the situation of a particular fight at a particular time. However, 'standard' techniques could be elbows, strong punch to the chin/jawline, strikes to the back of the head/neck, kicks to the knee, kicks to the groin, solar plexus shots to untrained people, etc.
Yeah, 'finishing' technique was a bad term for me to use. I can't say I'd use an elbow as a 'finishing' technique all the time because there would be times when an appropriate target for the elbow would not present itself.
For sparring, submission holds are okay, but I don't know about for the street. Holds that will knock the opponent out (chokes/strangles) are fine, but pain-based submissions I'm not so sure of. Okay, you get the guy to stop fighting or surrender. What then? Eventually, you've got to let him go. Back to square one. However, if you use that hold to go ahead and injure a knee or elbow, that could end the fight. Brutal, maybe, but it's a fight, not a sparring match, yes?
Hurm. I have to stop writing 'stream of conciousness'. Sometimes I don't know if I'm making sense or sounding like some violent crackpot.
Cthulhu
a) knocks the guy out (I could also say kill, but I won't
)b) severely injures the opponent so that he/she can't continue fighting. Think busted knee or elbow.
c) stuns the opponent long enough to do either (a) or (b)
What would accomplish the above three really depends on the situation of a particular fight at a particular time. However, 'standard' techniques could be elbows, strong punch to the chin/jawline, strikes to the back of the head/neck, kicks to the knee, kicks to the groin, solar plexus shots to untrained people, etc.
Yeah, 'finishing' technique was a bad term for me to use. I can't say I'd use an elbow as a 'finishing' technique all the time because there would be times when an appropriate target for the elbow would not present itself.
For sparring, submission holds are okay, but I don't know about for the street. Holds that will knock the opponent out (chokes/strangles) are fine, but pain-based submissions I'm not so sure of. Okay, you get the guy to stop fighting or surrender. What then? Eventually, you've got to let him go. Back to square one. However, if you use that hold to go ahead and injure a knee or elbow, that could end the fight. Brutal, maybe, but it's a fight, not a sparring match, yes?
Hurm. I have to stop writing 'stream of conciousness'. Sometimes I don't know if I'm making sense or sounding like some violent crackpot.
Cthulhu
I
IFAJKD
Guest
Not challenging what you said just checking. You guys are sounding very JKDish...HKE and ground fighting, low line kicks...makes me warm all over
I
IFAJKD
Guest
Headbutts, knees and elbows
Don't forget eyestrikes! Gotta love eyestrikes!
Speaking of which, I find that Century's B.O.B (Body Opponent Bag) is a really good tool to help train eyestrikes. Every time I train with him, I make sure I train eyestrikes, as well as throat strikes. Then I tear my forearms up punching him for an hour or more.
Fun!
:cheers:
Cthulhu
Speaking of which, I find that Century's B.O.B (Body Opponent Bag) is a really good tool to help train eyestrikes. Every time I train with him, I make sure I train eyestrikes, as well as throat strikes. Then I tear my forearms up punching him for an hour or more.
Fun!
:cheers:
Cthulhu
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