US won't share secret of beating roadside bomb info with allies.

[Tez3]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1242008/US-wont-share-secret-beating-roadside-bombs.html

"This comes from retired US Army Lieutenant-General Thomas Metz.
Lieut-Gen Metz has urged the Pentagon to share top-secret methods used by US forces to detect the so-called Improvised Explosive Devices and the terror networks which build them.
But Pentagon chiefs have refused, arguing that if the information falls into the hands of the Taliban, new ways will be found to beat the technology.



So tell me, did my martial arts student die along with many others last year because the Americans have chosen not to tell us something that could have saved all their lives, not to mention all those you have lost limbs?

This is not what we want to hear coming from our 'ally'. I have most of my students going out from the end of this month onwards, are they to die too because the Americans don't want to share info with us?

Angry doesn't cover how people feel about this. It's been on a lot of the forces network along with the families networks.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

This is inexcusable if true.

 

[Tez3]

It's not an accusation that has come from the Allies or anyone outside the US, it's a statement by a former high ranking US soldier. I don't know what his motivation is other than trying to save lives, it's not something that I think will do him any political good in his own country so there seems little reason to disbelieve him.

 

[crushing]

Could it be disinformation in an attempt to get the Taliban to change how they are doing it now?

 

[fireman00]

sorry for your loss.

more then likely we didn't share because the information would wind up in the hands of the enemy and they would then adapt and find new ways to hide their IEDs.

 

[grydth]

It is certainly something which deserves complete investigation and a clear answer. I do not know how we can expect other countries to support us if we are not supporting them with knowledge that can keep their soldiers alive.

I am somewhat skeptical that the US even has such knowledge, given that our own personnel continue to suffer and die from explosives at such an alarming rate.

On the other hand, the Christmas bombing attempt shows that, even years post 9/11 our agencies do not talk efficiently with each other - can we be surprised if such inefficiency carries over into dealing with friendly nations?

 

[Flea]

I have zero military background, so forgive me if this is off-base, but ... it seems like common sense to me that if the insurgents wanted to be effective they'd be working on new tactics all the time anyway, right?

 

[Bob Hubbard]

The average grunt has no idea what's being done at the command level. Do our forces tell each other everything? No, they don't. Never have, never will. That's the nature of things. But, if there's ways to better detect threats, that information I'm sure is shared. The last thing the US needs is one of it's few remaining engaged allies to say "hey, we lost 5 guys this year because you were keeping us ill equipped to survive, we quit."

 

[Tez3]

sorry for your loss.

more then likely we didn't share because the information would wind up in the hands of the enemy and they would then adapt and find new ways to hide their IEDs.

yeah thanks for that, our soldiers are known for their loose mouths aren't they, especially when being blown to pieces. It stands to reason that telling us would result in it being passed on to the enemy. I hope you didn't mean it the way it read.

Ongoing work is always being done to outwit the enemy as they are always working on looking for ways to outwit us.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Considering that the Taliban in Afghanistan can see the video feed from the Predator drones as they fly overhead, it's easy for them to find things out.

 

[Tez3]

The average grunt has no idea what's being done at the command level. Do our forces tell each other everything? No, they don't. Never have, never will. That's the nature of things. But, if there's ways to better detect threats, that information I'm sure is shared. The last thing the US needs is one of it's few remaining engaged allies to say "hey, we lost 5 guys this year because you were keeping us ill equipped to survive, we quit."

Any idea why this soldier should have stated this, whether it's true or not it's still going to cause a great deal of damage isn't it? Is he known for being political or having an axe to grind?

We've lost more than 5, we've lost over 100 now, most to roadside bombs. The list of injured is in the hundreds too so it's a big thing here. it's not just our soldiers either, its the children.
http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/D...MilitaryMedicsSaveAfghanGirlsInjuredByIed.htm


But then again if the Americans have a secret it's not working that well?
http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/D...hJournalistRupertHamerKilledInAfghanistan.htm

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Considering I don't know this soldier, never met him, never communicated with him, couldn't pick him out of a sea of short haircuts and square faces, I have no idea.

I can speculate, I can postulate, I can guess, but in the end I would still have no idea.

Maybe he's just an *** hole?

British losses, killed and wounded after 9 years, 10 months of continuous engagement are still significantly less than the losses the British forces suffered during their Falklands War (258K/777W), or any single day of any WW2 major campaign or engagement. While any single death is too many, neither the US nor Britain are suffering heavy losses, and considering the large number of unsuccessful attempts to harm our forces on a daily bases, the odds are quite good in our favor.

 

[Archangel M]

I'm sure ALL of our allies are sharing everything THEY know....

Not that it excuses this behavior, but come on. This surprises anybody with military or espionage experience????

-Considering how our own intelligence agencies don't share WITH EACH OTHER!-

 

[Archangel M]

Since many of these bombs are being detonated via signals from cell phones, garage door openers and other signals it doesn't take a genius to figure out that it's probably some form of energy/radio/signal system that is detonating these things from a distance. That and drones and sat imagery.

That would be my guess.

 

[Tez3]

Considering I don't know this soldier, never met him, never communicated with him, couldn't pick him out of a sea of short haircuts and square faces, I have no idea.

I can speculate, I can postulate, I can guess, but in the end I would still have no idea.

Maybe he's just an *** hole?

British losses, killed and wounded after 9 years, 10 months of continuous engagement are still significantly less than the losses the British forces suffered during their Falklands War (258K/777W), or any single day of any WW2 major campaign or engagement. While any single death is too many, neither the US nor Britain are suffering heavy losses, and considering the large number of unsuccessful attempts to harm our forces on a daily bases, the odds are quite good in our favor.

We've lost 246 soldiers in Afghan, 101 last year alone. The deaths in Falklands were 255. the wounded have far exceeded the Falklands. as the figures from the MOD show. The columns haven't been added together to make the total. Each is a total in itself.



The spreadsheet is here
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=phNtm3LmDZEOjtESRY5o0dw

names of dead, how they died and date of death here.
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=phNtm3LmDZEOjtESRY5o0dw


We have 9000 service people in Afghan, you can work out the percentage of our troops that are being killed and injured and as you can see it's not a small amount at all.

 

[Ken Morgan]

As part of NATO, the US asked for its allies help with Afghanistan, as such they should be sharing all information possible to aid those allies in the task of defeating the insurgants.

There is no such thing as a low death count. One is one too many.

Are American deaths more valuable then other allied deaths?

There has to be more to this story. I can't see the guys on the ground doing this to each other.

Coalition deaths in Afghanistan by country

USA: 882*

UK: 246

Canada: 137*

Germany: 40

France: 36

Denmark: 31

Spain: 26

Italy: 22

Netherlands: 21

Poland: 16

Australia: 11

Romania: 11

Estonia: 7

Norway: 4

Czech Republic: 3

Latvia: 3

Hungary: 2

Portugal: 2

South Korea: 2

Sweden: 2

Turkey: 2

Belgium: 1

Finland: 1

Jordan: 1

Lithuania: 1
TOTAL: 1,510

 

[Bob Hubbard]

I've stated in previous discussions that 1 death is too many.

 

[jks9199]

Trying to compare costs is pointless; every nation that has men and women serving in Afghanistan, Iraq, or anywhere else is paying a high price in lives ended and impacted through injuries.

At the same time, sharing military intelligence and technology, even among allies, isn't a simple matter. Sometimes there are sources and methods or raw tech that has to be vetted for sharing, and this takes time.

 

[Archangel M]

People getting all worked up over a news article are fools. There is ALWAYS more to the truth of the matter than what you see in the press. It's either a shallow piece or its INTENDED to generate controversy without all the facts. It also is used by people with preconceived notions as support for opinions that they hold already.

Seeing how the US far and away has lost more soldiers in Afghanistan, I don't see where this great technology is doing such an excellent job anyway. There are political and personal issues going on with this Generals "coming out" with this...bet on it.

 

[Tez3]

People getting all worked up over a news article are fools. There is ALWAYS more to the truth of the matter than what you see in the press. It's either a shallow piece or its INTENDED to generate controversy without all the facts. It also is used by people with preconceived notions as support for opinions that they hold already.

Seeing how the US far and away has lost more soldiers in Afghanistan, I don't see where this great technology is doing such an excellent job anyway. There are political and personal issues going on with this Generals "coming out" with this...bet on it.

One could argue though that America dragged the rest of us into their war both in Iraq and Afghanistan, to be sure Nato wouldn't have declared war on either country without America wishing it.

Whatever the facts of this information not being shared or not you soldier has caused a great deal of damage. I would really like to know why if it's not for reasons of saving lives.