United States Tae Kwon Do Committee?

[Kwan Jang]

Does anyone know anything first hand about this org? I have read on their website that they are an organization focused on the development of the martial arts aspect of TKD as opposed to it's sport version and it appears to be affiliated with KKW. Does anyone know anything about it?

 

[terryl965]

No KJ website look OK.

 

[miguksaram]

Does anyone know anything first hand about this org? I have read on their website that they are an organization focused on the development of the martial arts aspect of TKD as opposed to it's sport version and it appears to be affiliated with KKW. Does anyone know anything about it?

I am a task member for the committee. Yes, the USTC is focused on more on the traditional art side of things. Where WTF handles the standards for sparring competitions, it is the KKW that dictates the poomsae standards for TKD. The USTC is ran headed by President Sang Lee, former USTU president, and has many of the old USTU gaurd on board as part of comittee. We are hosting the 1st US Open Hanmadang/1st US National Hanmadang this June 19-20 in Chicago, Illinois.

 

[Brad Dunne]

It seems like every few years, a new organization, comprised of the "old USTU gaurd" pops up to save TKD. First it was the TKDW, then the TKDF and now the TKDC. They all have/are saying the same exact thing, "focused on more on the traditional art side of things", but the very first thing they offer is another venue for competition. Personally, I'm really tired of the "old guard" attempting to regain the power and the MONEY they have lost, because they are no longer the go to guys in the U.S. for TKD. Next attempt it will probably be the called the TKDM - Taekwon-do Magicians......... :uhyeah:

 

[miguksaram]

It seems like every few years, a new organization, comprised of the "old USTU gaurd" pops up to save TKD. First it was the TKDW, then the TKDF and now the TKDC. They all have/are saying the same exact thing, "focused on more on the traditional art side of things", but the very first thing they offer is another venue for competition. Personally, I'm really tired of the "old guard" attempting to regain the power and the MONEY they have lost, because they are no longer the go to guys in the U.S. for TKD. Next attempt it will probably be the called the TKDM - Taekwon-do Magicians......... :uhyeah:

Interesting. Personally I have never heard of the TKDW or TKDF. Can you give me some information on who it was that ran those organizations. As for the MONEY that they all gained I'm assuming that you have an expense sheet that displays all the profits that the guys made during their time in USTU. Since most of them barely broke even on the events that they had and the USTU did not generate a vast amount of wealth.

As far as regaining power, the USTC is not trying to regain anything. They are merely offering another avenue for those who don't wish to pursue just sparring. They have offered to work in conjunction with USAT, since USAT's main focus is on sparring and WTF sanctioned tournaments. USTC is focused on forms side of things and working with the KKW.

 

[Brad Dunne]

http://www.ustw.org/
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=58424

You sound very defensive with your response on the money issue. Lets not be coy with the rationalization that their in it for the good of TKD, cause that's pure BS. It's all about money and recognition. Those two links offered, answer your questions and both advocate the same facade that your new organization now offers. So now you tell me, why the need for yet another group of "Old Guard" Korean GM's offering the same pitch?

 

[miguksaram]

http://www.ustw.org/
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=58424

You sound very defensive with your response on the money issue. Lets not be coy with the rationalization that their in it for the good of TKD, cause that's pure BS. It's all about money and recognition. Those two links offered, answer your questions and both advocate the same facade that your new organization now offers. So now you tell me, why the need for yet another group of "Old Guard" Korean GM's offering the same pitch?

Thanks for the info on USTW. As I am unfamiliar with every "old gaurd" that was in the USTU, I am not sure who the head GM is that is running the show. It looks as though it is just one maybe two people who are USTU GM's. However, they are non-profit so perhaps you can explain how they are about the money.

Second link. The USTF mentioned in that thread is the USTC. When they formed the group they didn't realize there was a USTF organization so they change their name to USTC.

Do I sound defensive? I'm not. However, I am just curious as to which facts you have that support your statement that it is about money and profit. What makes you think they are not in it for the good of TKD? Have you sat down with Pres. Lee and talked to him about it? What is ironic is that the board members and founders of the USTC all run successful schools. So money really isn't a huge neccessity for them. So again, what draws you to the conclusion that they need money?

 

[wade]

Last year Sang Lee's group mass promoted a bunch of people to "INTERNATIONAL HANMADANG REFEREE" status down in California. I thought that was the first Hanmadang Competition in the US. Do they get to have another "first event" when ever they change cities?

I do know that now everyone that went to the one day seminar now calls themselves International Referees. They do tend to leave out the Hanmadang part for some reason though. The sad part is how many, from Oregon anyway, have never even refereed at a local tournament much less a national event and now they call themselves IR's? This is really funny in a kind of sad little way. It does look good on their new business cards though, gotta admit that.

 

[Brad Dunne]

However, they are non-profit so perhaps you can explain how they are about the money.

Non-Profit.............If I have my overhead high enough, then on the books I just about break even. This is nothing new in the business world and if you really believe that their not making any money from their undertakings, then have I got a real estate deal for you..............

Second link. The USTF mentioned in that thread is the USTC. When they formed the group they didn't realize there was a USTF organization so they change their name to USTC.

Huh!!?.........They were the USTF, then they weren't, but you never heard of the USTF............:uhohh:

"I am just curious as to which facts you have that support your statement that it is about money and profit. What makes you think they are not in it for the good of TKD?"

Just how many organizations do you need proclaiming the same rethoric? Since there already was the USTW, why not just align your folks behind them? Yeah! right.......No we'll start our own organization to do the same thing and we'll be the right one, cause it's all for the glory of TKD...........
First shot out of the box, lets hold a tournament in Chicago, were folks will come and pay to participate and join (membership) our new TKD flagship.

"Have you sat down with Pres. Lee and talked to him about it? What is ironic is that the board members and founders of the USTC all run successful schools. So money really isn't a huge neccessity for them. So again, what draws you to the conclusion that they need money?"

They all run successful schools, so they DON'T NEED the money!..........It's not that they may not need the money, it's they want the money, there's a difference. I realize that there may be an exception to the rule, somewhere in the world, but I have never seen a successful business person who didn't want to be more successful. You've been assigned a position and title (task member for the committee), whatever that may be, so your invested in the organization and thusly wish to support/defend it. You can wave the flag and rebuttle all you wish, but that dosen't deter the position of why create a new organization when there were already organizations in place to accomplish the same goals?

 

[mango.man]

So again, what draws you to the conclusion that they need money?

I might be wrong on this, but don't they still owe KKW hundreds of thousands of dollars for last year's FAILED World TKD Hanmadang?

http://www.mookas.us/media_view.asp?news_no=1372

 

[miguksaram]

Last year Sang Lee's group mass promoted a bunch of people to "INTERNATIONAL HANMADANG REFEREE" status down in California. I thought that was the first Hanmadang Competition in the US. Do they get to have another "first event" when ever they change cities?

I do know that now everyone that went to the one day seminar now calls themselves International Referees. They do tend to leave out the Hanmadang part for some reason though. The sad part is how many, from Oregon anyway, have never even refereed at a local tournament much less a national event and now they call themselves IR's? This is really funny in a kind of sad little way. It does look good on their new business cards though, gotta admit that.

Actually that was the World Hanmadang that was held last year sponsored by the KKW. It was the first time the Hanmadang was held outside of Korea. This year is the 1st US National Hanmadang which is being put on by the USTC themselves. Coming out of their back pockets to or more to the point GM KH Kim's back pocket.

They had two seperate seminars, one for 1st-3rd dans and the other was 4th dans and above. I believe the 1st=3rd dans did not receive IR positions, but a different type of referee position (I will have to check back on that as I may be wrong). 4th and above were certified as IR's. If they are leaving out Hanmadang when they discussing their titles then that is the fault of them not the USTC.

 

[miguksaram]

Huh!!?.........They were the USTF, then they weren't, but you never heard of the USTF............:uhohh:

Your original post you mentioned TKDF, not USTF. I told you I never heard of TKDF. So, yeah, your bad on that one.

Just how many organizations do you need proclaiming the same rethoric? Since there already was the USTW, why not just align your folks behind them? Yeah! right.......No we'll start our own organization to do the same thing and we'll be the right one, cause it's all for the glory of TKD...........
First shot out of the box, lets hold a tournament in Chicago, were folks will come and pay to participate and join (membership) our new TKD flagship.

Nice rant, but again, no proof in the accusation that you making against the USTC.

They all run successful schools, so they DON'T NEED the money!..........It's not that they may not need the money, it's they want the money, there's a difference. I realize that there may be an exception to the rule, somewhere in the world, but I have never seen a successful business person who didn't want to be more successful.

So according to your own words, there are exceptions to the rule to which you claim. There are people who do it for the love of it. So tell me why Pres. Lee can't be one of them? Is it because you know him personally to be a money hungry person? Because you have been burnt by the the "old gaurd" so you feel that are up to no good? Or is it because he is Korean and you feel Korean TKD people only want money?

You've been assigned a position and title (task member for the committee), whatever that may be, so your invested in the organization and thusly wish to support/defend it. You can wave the flag and rebuttle all you wish, but that dosen't deter the position of why create a new organization when there were already organizations in place to accomplish the same goals?

Why they asked me to be a task member is beyond me. I have no vested interest. Though I have over 20 years in TKD, I do not have a school full of students that can benefit them, in fact I teach out of a karate school. However, I had the opportunity to actually sit down and discuss the goals and ideas that Pres. Lee has for this organization.

I haven't had a chance to sit down with the likes of TKDW. So I don't know what their goals are. Perhaps they are the same, perhaps not. I can tell you this, unless you have personally sat down with both gentleman and discussed these issues personally how can you say they are the same? How can you sit there and spout that they just want money? The bottomline is that these are simple assumptions based on your own biased outlook. That is of course you have sat down and you do have the proof of which I was asking about earlier.

 

[miguksaram]

I might be wrong on this, but don't they still owe KKW hundreds of thousands of dollars for last year's FAILED World TKD Hanmadang?

http://www.mookas.us/media_view.asp?news_no=1372

Not that I am aware of. However from this quote from the story you provided:

Event organizers blame current economy crises in the United States, lack of support from masters in the United States, and lack of financial contribution from Kukkiwon for the outcome of this year's Hanmadang. But these factors were already anticipated and calculated from the beginning.

It seems that KKW contributed very litte in ways of financial support. The money to run the World Hanmadang came out of the USTC's back pocket.

 

[mango.man]

Not that I am aware of. However from this quote from the story you provided:
It seems that KKW contributed very litte in ways of financial support. The money to run the World Hanmadang came out of the USTC's back pocket.

As I recall it, the deal was that the total cost to hold the event was $600,000 and the USTF was to half. To my knowledge they have never come close to fully meeting that financial obligation and KKW is still owed a large sum of money. As I said, I might be wrong and the debt might be paid by now. I don't know as I have not followed the details of this since last summer. But I do know that last summer, they owed several hundred thousand dollars and were not able to pay.

 

[miguksaram]

As I recall it, the deal was that the total cost to hold the event was $600,000 and the USTF was to half. To my knowledge they have never come close to fully meeting that financial obligation and KKW is still owed a large sum of money. As I said, I might be wrong and the debt might be paid by now. I don't know as I have not followed the details of this since last summer. But I do know that last summer, they owed several hundred thousand dollars and were not able to pay.

Again, I am not sure myself. But if they did go in debt with it then that just shows that they are not doing this to make a crap load of money as is the accusation.

 

[mango.man]

Again, I am not sure myself. But if they did go in debt with it then that just shows that they are not doing this to make a crap load of money as is the accusation.

But it would show that they do need money which you have asserted that they do not. I am sure that KKW is not just blowing off any money that is still owed.

 

[miguksaram]

But it would show that they do need money which you have asserted that they do not. I am sure that KKW is not just blowing off any money that is still owed.

You are mixing up two different things here. My reply of they are not doing it for the money is in response to accusation that a reason that they started this organization was make more money. They don't need to start an organization to make money when in fact they have successful schools. If in fact they are in debt to KKW, then forming this organization was counter productive, if it was "for the money".

 

[Brad Dunne]

"Nice rant, but again, no proof in the accusation that you making against the USTC."

OK. you have danced around this question twice, so how about offering an answer. As for proof for the accusation, again it's in front of you in the question, which I'll repeat for the third time; Why form a new organization to do what at least 2 other organizations are already supposed to be doing?

Now on another facet of this discussion, if your going to quote me then do it correctly and don't change it to suit your rebuttal.

"So according to your own words, there are exceptions to the rule to which you claim"

The correct wording was; "I realize that there may be an exception to the rule, somewhere in the world"...............Notice the word exception (singular) and [somewhere in the world], which means it's very very rare. There I've explained it for you.....:duh:

 

[miguksaram]

"Nice rant, but again, no proof in the accusation that you making against the USTC."

OK. you have danced around this question twice, so how about offering an answer. As for proof for the accusation, again it's in front of you in the question, which I'll repeat for the third time; Why form a new organization to do what at least 2 other organizations are already supposed to be doing?

I thought we established that you gave only one example of an organization that may be doing the same thing. I believe we established that one of the organizations that you sited was in fact the USTC, just under their formal name of USTF. After looking at the website of the TKDW it doesn't appear to be doing the same thing as USTC. Their certification process seems to be limited to certifying only in the TKDW. I didn't see where they work with KKW for certification process. Nor do I see where they work with KKW for IR certifications and other such items. Also they seem to be their own entity. Their instructor certifications and their rank certificiations flow through the organization not KKW. So all the tournaments you go to are TKDW tournaments and they don't seem to work with USAT or KKW Hanmadang (I could be wrong as I didn't go into great depth on their website nor did I contact them personally). Again, I don't know about the gentlemen who is running this organization or his role in the USTU, though I do recognize GM Ahn from the pictures (Really nice and knowledgable person).

The USTC is working along with KKW. They're focus is on promoting more of the "art" side of things and less of the fighting side. This isn't to say that they are tossing fighting to the side. This is to say that they are not trying to push the olympic dream that has actually been counterproductive to the KKWTKD since less than a handful ever get a chance at it.

Now on another facet of this discussion, if your going to quote me then do it correctly and don't change it to suit your rebuttal.

"So according to your own words, there are exceptions to the rule to which you claim"

The correct wording was; "I realize that there may be an exception to the rule, somewhere in the world"...............Notice the word exception (singular) and [somewhere in the world], which means it's very very rare. There I've explained it for you.....:duh:

Ok..so there is only ONE person in the world which would be the exception. So tell me why couldn't it be Pres. Lee? Or does this person have to be outside of the US in some remote village in a 3rd world country that has more consonents than vowels in its name?

Secondly...you still didn't answer the other questions that I asked earlier. Talk about dancing. iratedan

 

[Brad Dunne]

You know, after giving this thread additional thought, it has come down to just two people attempting to downplay each other. To be truthful, it's really just not worth the time and effort to keep the banter going............So you win!!!.......

ALL HAIL THE USTC!!............artyon: