uncomfortable situation in sparring

[Ella]

I just switched schools, and tonight was the first night I sparred at my new school. At my old school, we were very into sport point fighting. It's what I'm best at.

My new school does what they call "continuous sparring" without breaks after every hit, but in my opinon it was pretty much point fighting. I saw very little difference.

I was surprised that no one (besides me) wore headgear, but it didn't take me long to realize that that was because people seldom hit to the head; not that it wasn't allowed; people just didn't.

I do, though. I'm a small girl, and I would have to be trying to hurt someone to actually do it. So I was fighting this large, older, male 1st kyu, and right off the bat I roundhouse kicked him to the side of the head. (he was quite a bit taller than me, and surprised.) I could tell from - I don't know what exactly, but I could tell that he was annoyed and was going to hit me very hard. I got in a defensive stance, and he came running at me very fast. I did a defensive side kick which landed below the ribs.

It was just a regular side kick, but he was running towards me very fast and impaled himself upon it.

Then he wheezed and went to pout in the corner. I am sure that it hurt, and that it took his breath, but it was not THAT bad, and it wasn't malicious. He simply threw himself onto it.

After babying it for 5 minutes, he came back, and looked really mad. I realized that he was not a very good fighter, but used to "winning" by throwing his weight around. I wasn't scared of him, but I didn't clash with him again. I became extremely evasive, and I don't believe he hit me again.

After class, I asked if he was ok, and he said, yes, but his side was sore. I said, "I'm sorry, I didn't mean to hurt you, but you were coming very fast."

At this point he informed me that he had been training at the dojo for 15 years but this had been his first class after a 4 year hiatus. He also let me know that before he left, no one could kick him hard enough to make him hurt, and that there was a time when everyone feared HIS kicks. This was all fine, but the last thing really threw me. "Just wait a couple months. You'll see."

Am I reading too much into this? Maybe I am, but I've learned that I regret it when I don't trust my instincts. I don't really want to go to the head instructor, though, because I am a brand new student at his school, and this guy apparently has been around for 15 years. Who's side do you think he would take? But I was extremely uncomfortable... Everyone else was extremely nice to me, and the instructors are great... but the hairs on the back of my neck stand up around this guy.

 

[wade]

You know I love you, right? You are my kind of woman. Able to face a tough situation and handle it. Keep it up and good luck.

 

[Tames D]

I think he's just a 'talker'. Don't worry about him. It appears to me that you were taught well.

 

[Cirdan]

Yeah, a talker. Ignore him and with a little luck you won`t have to spar with him again. He is probably the type who shows up at the dojo once evry two weeks or so anyway.

 

[Carol]

I'd mention it to your instructor.

He may very well just be a "talker" but that kind of talk has no place in an environment where people are trying to learn.

 

[K' Evans]

I have to admit, as much as he may be a "talker", you really don't know this person well enough to tell if he is being serious or not, and it's better to be cautious than not. It does sound like he won't forgive you for bruising his ego, however at least he is making a "delayed" threat: that is to give him some time to get back into shape.

IMO, if I was in your shoes, I would try not to spar with him any time soon. For now, he most likely wouldn't want to spar and this may give him time to let the grudge go. After a few months, it's possible he won't be so hard on you or he may even find a more "worthy" opponent. In any case, he may let some of that rage go. On the other hand, if he does remember that challenge, and confronts you, I would probably either tell the instructor (by then he should be more ready to trust and listen to me), or ask for someone to monitor our sparring match. That way, an independent third observer can judge the match or stop it if he gets too rough.

In either case, I wouldn't want to mess with anyone that you are not familiar with. Some people can be truly be so self-centred and delusional that they won't care how they hurt you, as long as they don't lose their "pride". Better to let them be than get hurt in the process.

 

[Shaderon]

Yep sounds to me like you hurt his ego. Really I'd agree with Carol about telling the instructor. The instructor should know what's going on in their class, but they also should be abel to tell you if this guy is liable to make threat he won't follow up or if he will follow it up. They may be able to know if this guy has a history of going in too hard and might have an idea of why he went at you like he did.

What you don't mention is how hard the roundhouse kick you did is and whether they are used to that level of contact in the new class, this is another thing your intstructor may be able to claify for you.

All in all though, I'd steer clear of him for a while like the others say and let him cool down, it's highly probably it's just his ego talking from being beaten by a girl when he's not used to being beaten at all. Sounds like he could learn something from you if he shelves that long enough.

 

[stone_dragone]

Another vote for instructor discussion. Talk with your instructor about the expected level of contact and aiming at the head (I'm a fan, but they may not be).

I am intrigued by several things here....

First, if that is the first time he has been hit hard in 15 years, I'd personally think that he's not training enough.

Second, 15 years at the school but just got off a 4 year hiatus...sounds more like he trained for 11 years -- 4 years ago.

Third and final, I am amused that he felt compelled to tell you all of this instead of saying "Good shot...a little rough, but good shot." Personal styles, I guess.

 

[Andrew Green]

He was nursing a badly bruised ego. Could have meant a couple things. Might have been more a long the lines of "I was tough, and I'll get there again. Gimme a few months and I'll be able to take a hit again."

People say stupid things when they are justifying getting there butt whooped and don't think they should have.

Still, mention it to your instructor, but unless more red flags follow I'd not put much thought into it.

ps - Nice job

 

[14 Kempo]

Yes, a bruised ego ... one of the best things I ever learned is that the dojo is no place for ego. Talk or no talk, the instructor should be aware. He/she can then deal with it ... if it were my student, I would first try to deal with it as a talk to the class as a whole about ego and leaving it at the door, but not singling out anyone. The man needs to learn that coming in strong has its benefits and pitfalls ... you'd better be able to take a hit if you want to be that aggressive. You did the right thing, keep it up!

Just my opinion ... good luck

 

[Kacey]

And yet another vote for talking to the instructor - regardless of what this person meant, his statement could easily be taken as a threat, and needs to be treated as such.

One thing I will point out: no matter how fast he came at you, you are responsible for the techniques you throw. In my class, and my instructor's class, there is no such thing as "he walked into it" - you threw it, it's yours, as are any consequences that may result. So while I understand what you're saying, at the same time, you bear some responsibility as well - you put the side kick out there, and didn't retract it when he came at it; it is your fault he "impaled himself upon it", because you threw the technique - even though it's his fault he was sufficiently out of control to not be able to stop himself.

 

[Touch Of Death]

I just switched schools, and tonight was the first night I sparred at my new school. At my old school, we were very into sport point fighting. It's what I'm best at.

My new school does what they call "continuous sparring" without breaks after every hit, but in my opinon it was pretty much point fighting. I saw very little difference.

I was surprised that no one (besides me) wore headgear, but it didn't take me long to realize that that was because people seldom hit to the head; not that it wasn't allowed; people just didn't.

I do, though. I'm a small girl, and I would have to be trying to hurt someone to actually do it. So I was fighting this large, older, male 1st kyu, and right off the bat I roundhouse kicked him to the side of the head. (he was quite a bit taller than me, and surprised.) I could tell from - I don't know what exactly, but I could tell that he was annoyed and was going to hit me very hard. I got in a defensive stance, and he came running at me very fast. I did a defensive side kick which landed below the ribs.

It was just a regular side kick, but he was running towards me very fast and impaled himself upon it.

Then he wheezed and went to pout in the corner. I am sure that it hurt, and that it took his breath, but it was not THAT bad, and it wasn't malicious. He simply threw himself onto it.

After babying it for 5 minutes, he came back, and looked really mad. I realized that he was not a very good fighter, but used to "winning" by throwing his weight around. I wasn't scared of him, but I didn't clash with him again. I became extremely evasive, and I don't believe he hit me again.

After class, I asked if he was ok, and he said, yes, but his side was sore. I said, "I'm sorry, I didn't mean to hurt you, but you were coming very fast."

At this point he informed me that he had been training at the dojo for 15 years but this had been his first class after a 4 year hiatus. He also let me know that before he left, no one could kick him hard enough to make him hurt, and that there was a time when everyone feared HIS kicks. This was all fine, but the last thing really threw me. "Just wait a couple months. You'll see."

Am I reading too much into this? Maybe I am, but I've learned that I regret it when I don't trust my instincts. I don't really want to go to the head instructor, though, because I am a brand new student at his school, and this guy apparently has been around for 15 years. Who's side do you think he would take? But I was extremely uncomfortable... Everyone else was extremely nice to me, and the instructors are great... but the hairs on the back of my neck stand up around this guy.

Ummm; continuous point fighting usually requires a bit more control. If you want to bang, you are going to get banged; and, you should be concerned.
Sean

 

[Sukerkin]

The general advice to talk to your instructor about what is acceptable in the sparring environment is absolutely vital - in fact I'm surprised this wasn't made clear at the very start.

Kacey's last point is central too - you are responsible for the techniques that you use and the effects that they have.

In an odd bit of backwards logic it is why I was taught never to apologise for hitting someone in sparring i.e. if you clobbered them too hard or in the wrong place then it's your fault, so train harder so you don't make mistakes.

I never subscribed to that mode of thought I have to admit and would apologise if I messed up (tho' I did train harder so that I didn't mess up so often). Likewise, if it had been me on the receiving end of a roundhouse to the head that wasn't pulled and didn't get an apology for it, I'd be fairly annoyed too.

If I might ask a rude question of a lady, how old are you Ella? I ask because it can have a bearing on the attitudes involved in the incident you describe. For example, if the chap is considerably older than you, then he's not going to want to complain to the sensei about a young lass belting him in the head, especially if he's had a long lay off, which may've make him more vocally irritable than he otherwise would be.

As an aside, I don't want to make judgements but why is he only 1st kyu after a decade of training?. I don't mean any insult to 1st kyu by the way, just that I would have imagine ten years of training would have carried him to dan territory if he'd been serious about it.

 

[mcantele]

I think maybe you are reading to much into it. He may very well have been winded and just needed to walk away. I would forget about it and if he needs another kick to the head, then so be it.

 

[Ella]

What you don't mention is how hard the roundhouse kick you did is and whether they are used to that level of contact in the new class, this is another thing your intstructor may be able to claify for you.

It was just a regular head kick... Lighter than if I had thrown it to the body... the same roundhouse I throw to everyone's head, but no one's ever complained... the only difference was, he wasn't wearing headgear... but I don't believe the difference was that large.

Second, 15 years at the school but just got off a 4 year hiatus...sounds more like he trained for 11 years -- 4 years ago.

That's what I thought too! But I just let it go.

One thing I will point out: no matter how fast he came at you, you are responsible for the techniques you throw. In my class, and my instructor's class, there is no such thing as "he walked into it" - you threw it, it's yours, as are any consequences that may result. So while I understand what you're saying, at the same time, you bear some responsibility as well - you put the side kick out there, and didn't retract it when he came at it; it is your fault he "impaled himself upon it", because you threw the technique - even though it's his fault he was sufficiently out of control to not be able to stop himself.

I totally agree. I could have retracted my kick, but I thought then, and still think, that if I did, he would push through it and hit me, perhaps over the head. To me, either he was going to get gutted or I was going to get injured. I accept full responsibity for it, but I'd do it again. Because between me and him, I choose me.

For example, if the chap is considerably older than you, then he's not going to want to complain to the sensei about a young lass belting him in the head, especially if he's had a long lay off, which may've make him more vocally irritable than he otherwise would be.

As an aside, I don't want to make judgements but why is he only 1st kyu after a decade of training?. I don't mean any insult to 1st kyu by the way, just that I would have imagine ten years of training would have carried him to dan territory if he'd been serious about it.

He was considerably older than me. But I didn't belt him in the head. As for him not being a shodan, I have no idea.

I think maybe you are reading to much into it. He may very well have been winded and just needed to walk away. I would forget about it and if he needs another kick to the head, then so be it.

I hope you're right!

 

[Kacey]

It was just a regular head kick... Lighter than if I had thrown it to the body... the same roundhouse I throw to everyone's head, but no one's ever complained... the only difference was, he wasn't wearing headgear... but I don't believe the difference was that large.

The purpose of headgear is not to protect you from head shots; it's to protect your head if you fall down. I agree, based on what you said, that these people are not used to head shots - and it doesn't provide enough protection from being hit in the head to matter - but it did save a friend of mine's life when he was cold-cocked and hit the floor with the back of his head - he had a concussion and a black eye, but that was it; without the headgear he'd have had a severe head injury.

Please don't rely on your headgear to protect you from being hit in the head, and don't assume that's why they don't hit to the head - there are a fair number of organizations where head shots are restricted or illegal, and therefore their students don't know how to throw them or protect against them - either they never learned, or they learned so relatively late in their career how to do it that head shots are not a primary part of their arsenal, and since no one throws them, no one protects against them.

 

[Ella]

I did ask, before class, if head and groin shots were legal.

 

[Kacey]

I did ask, before class, if head and groin shots were legal.

That's good, but it's not quite what I meant - just because they're legal doesn't mean everyone - or even anyone - will use them, and if they were illegal or restricted in the past, then most people will be unfamiliar and/or uncomfortable with them... so you being there and familiar with such targets, and able to hit them, will be good for everyone! But there's likely to be some disgruntled feelings for a while, as you'll be able to hit almost all of the other students once (probably several times) before they start learning to block their heads instead of their chests.

 

[Kenpo 2006]

It is always rough switching schools as far as sparring goes. One of the last schools I trained at had serious ego problems and honestly I felt like no one cared. The best thing is to make sure that your instructor is aware, but also use these situations to train mentally....in the street nobody giving you a second chance, but if it becomes a real problem find a school that is more to your liking... Every school does it different and the egoists never make it better.

 

[bigfootsquatch]

I just switched schools, and tonight was the first night I sparred at my new school. At my old school, we were very into sport point fighting. It's what I'm best at.

My new school does what they call "continuous sparring" without breaks after every hit, but in my opinon it was pretty much point fighting. I saw very little difference.

I was surprised that no one (besides me) wore headgear, but it didn't take me long to realize that that was because people seldom hit to the head; not that it wasn't allowed; people just didn't.

I do, though. I'm a small girl, and I would have to be trying to hurt someone to actually do it. So I was fighting this large, older, male 1st kyu, and right off the bat I roundhouse kicked him to the side of the head. (he was quite a bit taller than me, and surprised.) I could tell from - I don't know what exactly, but I could tell that he was annoyed and was going to hit me very hard. I got in a defensive stance, and he came running at me very fast. I did a defensive side kick which landed below the ribs.

It was just a regular side kick, but he was running towards me very fast and impaled himself upon it.

Then he wheezed and went to pout in the corner. I am sure that it hurt, and that it took his breath, but it was not THAT bad, and it wasn't malicious. He simply threw himself onto it.

After babying it for 5 minutes, he came back, and looked really mad. I realized that he was not a very good fighter, but used to "winning" by throwing his weight around. I wasn't scared of him, but I didn't clash with him again. I became extremely evasive, and I don't believe he hit me again.

After class, I asked if he was ok, and he said, yes, but his side was sore. I said, "I'm sorry, I didn't mean to hurt you, but you were coming very fast."

At this point he informed me that he had been training at the dojo for 15 years but this had been his first class after a 4 year hiatus. He also let me know that before he left, no one could kick him hard enough to make him hurt, and that there was a time when everyone feared HIS kicks. This was all fine, but the last thing really threw me. "Just wait a couple months. You'll see."

Am I reading too much into this? Maybe I am, but I've learned that I regret it when I don't trust my instincts. I don't really want to go to the head instructor, though, because I am a brand new student at his school, and this guy apparently has been around for 15 years. Who's side do you think he would take? But I was extremely uncomfortable... Everyone else was extremely nice to me, and the instructors are great... but the hairs on the back of my neck stand up around this guy.

He's just a talker, kinda like you talking about how you hurt him. People like to talk. Let them talk. YOU should learn to control your techniques, catching people in or around the rib cage as they rush can easily break ribs either way. I imagine you would have "pouted and babied" your side too. It doesn't matter how hard the kick was, if it took his breath then it takes a few minutes to catch up, especially being older.

annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnndddd

You don't have to hurt to embarrass them. You should have stepped to the side and swept if you felt like you were in danger, rather than risk seriously injuring the man.

Be more thoughtful with your words. A sorry will do. Nobody likes to hear that "well I'm sorry I hurt you." It's like when someone says, stop before I hurt you, or stop while you're still ahead" attitude, regardless of how you meant it. If he's been there for 15 years then he knows there are bumps and bruises and doesn't need to be reminded that he got hurt by and uncontrolled counter against his uncontrolled attack.