UFC Style Fighting

[7starmantis]

One of the other threads here, got me thinking about this. Why is it that you never see an accomplished MAist enter one of these tournaments and do very well? I know the "moral" aspect, and all, but aside from that, why is it no one enters who can just finish everyone off in a few min and rake up on them all? Do you think they stop people from competing if they are to "advanced" in a particular style?

Just a thought, what does everyone think ?

 

[fist of fury]

Beccause those accomplished M.A'ist have nothing to prove. And unless the competetive nature appeals to you why bother.

 

[7starmantis]

I guess I didn't make my point exactly. I see people in there all the time claiming different MA styles. Why is it they never get anywhere in the tournaments? Why is it there training doesn't prove more useful? Is it lack of training?

7sm

PS I'm just trying to stir up some conversation in here

 

[Master of Blades]

You know I have no idea!

 

[KennethKu]

Probably the same reason that most people drive but very few become Formular 1 racers. Many people play baseball but only a few play professionally.

It is a safe bet to say that many can prevail in the ring, but it will probably result in serious injury to the other person. UFC is a sport business. Serious injury is bad for business.

JMHO, of course.

 

[Kempojujutsu]

I know Tito Ortiz clams he traines 8 hrs a day 6 days a week. This is not teaching, it is sweating your *** off for 48 hours a week. Then probably another 4 to 5 hours per day training other people. Most Martial Artist don't train like this. This way Tito is the light heavy weigth champ.
Bob :asian:

 

[tmanifold]

I think it boils down to a few thing.
UFC athletes are just that, elite athletes.
Most martial arts contain techniques that are contrary to good sportsmanship. Such as techniques that break limbs for example or attack the eyes.
And third the one on one style in a confined space makes certain techniques more appropriate. Obviously, grappling is at a huge advatage.
Also, very few traditional MAist train full contact for obvious reasons.

Tony

 

[Master of Blades]

I think another thing is, in many Martial Arts the winner is chosen by his style and so on. In UFC the winner is the one who isnt bleeding on the floor unconsciouse!

 

[J-kid]

99.9 people MA or not dont have what it takes to do one 10 minute round and two 5 minute rounds. Second alot of MAs dont work agaist a fully rounded fighters . Not only that but you gotta train almost 20 hours a day every day to do UFC fighting. This is not sparing were you hit your openent softly and go for 3 mins or so its full out no holds bars almost fighting., for 20 mins Not many people can take that kind of adrilen DUMP, Your Friend judo-kid.

 

[sweeper]

(edit) Warning, I seem to have rambaled on in this even more than normal (/edit)

it's all in the training, UFC is a sport, there are rules and to be good you have to be in realy good shape + have alot of experience. Asking why martial artists don't win is like asking why a martial art famed for it's hand tehcniques doesn't produce alot of heavy weight boxing champs.. well boxers are good at what they do. If you want to be good at something you have to go out and do it. You can't do somthing simular a whole bunch and than hope it will translate.. you can't train a bunch in kali than go and be an olympic fencer just because both kali and foiul fencing use swords (or sticks depending on your perspective). even between simular arts there isn't alot of cross over, you don't see alot of good mauy thai fighters winning in olympic TKD (unless they have alot of experience in TKD) just like you don't see alot of good Mauy Thai fighters that only have a TKD backround. Both arts use alot of kicks, but there are diffrent rules and that forces you to use diffrent tactics to win.

If you look at early UFC fights you can see alot of various styles being used, some of them worked and some of them didn't. Some were used in the "wrong way" some the fighters were simply inferior to others.. In my opinion UFC is interesting not simply because of what is/isn't alowed in the ring, but rather because it is so new you get to see the evolution of the style of fighting that people win with, you got to see everything from sumo to mauy thai enter fights and you saw what happened. Over time things have evened out more and fighters look more simular, but in my opinion it's alot of fun to look at how things changed over time.

Back to the question at hand, I have had very little exposure to traditional arts, just one my brother practiced that sounded like it was simular to kempo, and a few that my freinds practice. I don't know any experts on any of them and I havn't set foot in a school that teaches any of them (unless you count kali wich some do and some don't). But form what I have seen of themand what I learn through JKD and Kali, it seems alot of such arts utalise alot of techniques that are illegal in the ring. without alowing things like throught strikes or chokes that are intended to cut off air, or eye gouges or groin shots or small joint submisions or kicking an opponant when they are down, you realy start to cut apart the tactics and strategies that a traditional artist might use, these things seem minor but the add up to someone having to change their whole fighting style and not nessisaraly being prepared for holes that appear because of the change or how to properly exploit holes that apear with their now limited arsinal of techniques.

 

[Carbon]

I think this topic comes up more than any other discussion.

Its simple numbers people, an average person that goes to a MA school 3 times a week isn't going to beable to compete with a well trained athlete.

Also the average MA competitor or enthuasiast doesn't have the nerve or the ability to do what the people in the UFC do.

This is why you only see a limited number of people join the Navy Seals because its not easy. Some people are cut out for it and no matter how much other people want to do that it just doesn't come to them as easily as some of the other fighters.

I want to ask all the people here who think they are good MAist that say ya I don't have anything to prove. Except you talk about your skillz, I would like to know how many people here have competed in full contact National Competitions and really put themselves up to the test.

Not because they had something to prove, but because they wanted to see how good they really were.

 

[Deathtrap101]

just to throw my opinion in which is adding on to what just about all of you ahve bin saying. The UFC is a sport it has rules(i havnt watched it but im sure there are rules.)keeping you from using moves that can completely disable an apponent. Traditional MA are taught to disable there apponent as quickly as possible using any means neciserry. ANd depending on the person and situation varies how much damage will be done and how.

just my 2-bits.

 

[J-kid]

What do you mean, The rules in Ufc there arnt many one no poking the eyes out. two no head butting and no -breaking the neck or so forth so what are you saying Just admit it MAs arnt built to fight people who train in all the loop wholes and are super rounded fighters. I have never seen one MA guy besides Diffrent styles of Kickboxing and jujitsu judo etc, not many arts can meet the challengs of UFC . And what do you mean disable the target, You can still kick punch armbar legbar chock out pritty much 90% street fight 10 % rules,

 

[fist of fury]

Sportfighting and street fighting are 2 completely different things. What works in the ring won't always work in the street and what works in the street won't always work in the ring or be allowed in the ring. Most m.a.'ist aren't interested in training for sport fighting and I don't know of many street fights that have 3 minute rounds.

 

[KennethKu]

There are many reasons why people learn MA. Stepping into the ring to knock someone out cold may not necessarily be the primary reason for the majority of practitoners. Most MA practitioners can fight and defend themselves and they are satisfied at that.

 

[fanged_seamus]

Originally posted by Judo-kid

What do you mean, The rules in Ufc there arnt many one no poking the eyes out. two no head butting and no -breaking the neck or so forth so what are you saying Just admit it MAs arnt built to fight people who train in all the loop wholes and are super rounded fighters. I have never seen one MA guy besides Diffrent styles of Kickboxing and jujitsu judo etc, not many arts can meet the challengs of UFC . And what do you mean disable the target, You can still kick punch armbar legbar chock out pritty much 90% street fight 10 % rules,

:soapbox:
I'm REALLY tired of this silly argument. UFC is NOT real fighting -- it is a simulation, a 1-on-1, no weapons, wrestling bout with some punches and kicks thrown in. Sparring is NOT real fighting -- boxing is NOT real fighting -- the list goes on. All of these things are attempts to SAFELY MIMIC a real fight.

REAL fighting is what a soldier does when he loses his weapon and three guys come at him with bayonets. It is what happened on Iwo Jima and Wake Island and a million other places. There is no "winner" in a real fight, only a survivor.

If some jackass wanting to deck you is your idea of a street fight, then the UFC is for you. If a multi-person drunken brawl is you idea of a street fight, good for you. We all train for that sort of thing....

But what rules are there when someone draws a gun or knife on you? What rules are there when four guys kick in your door to rob you after you answer it? In these confrontations (what I consider "real fights"), there is only one rule: Be the survivor.

UFC fighters are GREAT at UFC fighting; go figure. MAists are GREAT at martial arts. But put a fencing guy in a kendo match, and the kendo guys will clean his clock. Put a UFC guy in the middle of a WWI trench charge, and I bet he lasts all of 3 seconds.

You're entitled to your opinion, but I'd like to say that I hope it changes with time. And I hope it doesn't take someone stabbing a knife into your ribcage when you get someone in the mount position to change it.

Tad

 

[7starmantis]

Yeah, I hear all that about not wanting to hurt people, and not having anything to prove. And alot of people are saying, well, the average MAist who goes to class three days a week. Thats not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the MAist who trains 18 hours a day, who enjoys full contact sports just to puch themselves. I know I can't be the only one out there who pushes themselves to that level! Am I ?
Anyways, I agree with alot of the statements, but I just want to see it one day. I truly great MAist walk in there, not talk trash, just win! You have to admit, it would be awesome to see!!!


7sm

 

[bscastro]

This is an interesting discussion. I think the UFC and NHB have done alot for martial arts in general. I think it has exposed the pure strikers to grappling and the pure grapplers to striking (notice that few NHB fighters are "purely" a single art anymore). I used to think that grappling was not practical for self-defense until I got tackled by a friend and found myself on the ground wondering what to do. Luckily, it was a friend tackling me. Now I have found grappling to be fun and great exercise as well as possibly useful for self-defense situations.

Also, as many have said, these guys at the top levels are basically pro athletes. In the older UFC you saw guys who were black belts in their style, but now it has become a new animal with guys who train striking, grappling, and conditioning 6-10 hours a day. The top fighters are well-rounded and in good shape. Even the guys like Mark Coleman who they say doesn't have much "endurance" probably has more endurance than a majority of the martial artists practicing.

As another person said, people do MA's for different reasons. I think people who can't fight in UFC (for conditioning for example) could still defend themselves successfully. I think we can enjoy events like the UFC and still practice martial arts very well whether we do no-holds-barred-style fighting or not.

Thanks for reading my babbling post.

Bryan

 

[7starmantis]

Originally posted by fanged_seamus

You're entitled to your opinion, but I'd like to say that I hope it changes with time. And I hope it doesn't take someone stabbing a knife into your ribcage when you get someone in the mount position to change it.

Tad

I had to respons to this....
I am not saying it is "real" fighting. I never said that. I don't believe it is even close, it is simply a competition like anything else. I jsut am wondering why more MAist don't enter, I though it was curious.
I want to say that I am in no way trying to take away from what our soldiers, and my grandfathers died for, I'm looking at it as a competition and thats all.
And just a side note, I study 7 Star Praying Mantis Kung Fu, I don't use the mount position, and I pity anyone who tries it on me!


7sm

 

[fanged_seamus]

7starmantis,

I was actually responding to the message posted by Judo-kid. I didn't mean for the comments to be directed towards you or your post. This time I'll contribute rather than rant....

I agree that UFC and NHB have shown MANY martial arts weaknesses they'd never considered before (usually in grappling). And grapplers got a wake-up call when the "second generation" strikers came into the ring.

But, IMO, the rules of UFC require an extremely well-rounded (in terms of range) competitor. Few if any traditional martial arts are equally strong at all ranges. So the person who trains to be strong in all ranges has an advantage over someone who is an expert at one or two ranges, but weak in the others. After all, competition is all about exploiting the weaknesses of your rivals....

I think age plays a factor as well. For someone to truly master a particular martial art takes decades, if not a life-time. At the age of 35 or 40, would you be willing to step into a UFC match to face a young, strong opponent who is skilled at many different martial arts? I'm not sure I would be....

Just my thoughts and opinions,
Tad Finnegan