Tucking the Chin

Gwai Lo Dan

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Does your WTF-style school talk about or teach tucking the chin?

I was in class yesterday, and had my chin tucked in a "fighting stance" with both hands high up (high relative to the common TKD "fighting stance") and was told to lift my head up. The instructor showed me how to stand straight up, and my off-the-cuff comment (perhaps unrespectfully, admittedly) was "you'll get punched in the chin" and showed a few punches without contact.

Her reply was "punching to the face isn't allowed". So I clearly understood she was thinking about WTF-style sparring.

But it got me thinking - do you teach or get taught different stances for self-defence vs tournaments? And more specifically, does your school ever talk about tucking the chin?
 

Kung Fu Wang

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To have a strong front door that's hard for your opponent to break through, you can also has a strategy to keep your opponent 10 feet away from your house. Besides tucking the chin, you can also have a strategy to seal off the path for your opponent's uppercut.
 

Transk53

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To have a strong front door that's hard for your opponent to break through, you can also has a strategy to keep your opponent 10 feet away from your house. Besides tucking the chin, you can also have a strategy to seal off the path for your opponent's uppercut.


Which would be a grapple right :)
 

ShotoNoob

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But it got me thinking - do you teach or get taught different stances for self-defence vs tournaments? And more specifically, does your school ever talk about tucking the chin?
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I think this is one of the silliest lines of reasoning I have ever heard. I have visited traditional karate schools of many styles & nationality in my area. Never have I heard an instructor or student act as if they don't need to guard the head, in any of the components of the curriculum.
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Traditional karate uses an active guard, blocking & evasion to protect the head. The chin tuck is a graft from boxing, kickboxing for those who can't do the traditional guarding.
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On stances, I use the traditional stances taught in my style for kumite. Others @ my dojo use the more common springing stances conventional to sport karate point fighting. Others stand like boxers, or kickboxers, even some like Muay Thai stylists.... In jiyu kumite, our instructors pretty much allow the students to use whatever form they like.
 

Kung Fu Wang

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Which would be a grapple right :)
If you want to find solution for

- striking, you should look into the grappling game.
- grappling, you should look into the striking game.

In the following clip, the arm wrapping is used to counter the striking game and the headbutt is used to counter the grappling game.

 

Touch Of Death

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Tucking your chin is a luxury provided for the ring. It kills your awareness, to anything that is not right in front of you; however, tuck if you can. :)
 

K-man

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I think this is one of the silliest lines of reasoning I have ever heard. I have visited traditional karate schools of many styles & nationality in my area. Never have I heard an instructor or student act as if they don't need to guard the head, in any of the components of the curriculum.
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Traditional karate uses an active guard, blocking & evasion to protect the head. The chin tuck is a graft from boxing, kickboxing for those who can't do the traditional guarding.
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On stances, I use the traditional stances taught in my style for kumite. Others @ my dojo use the more common springing stances conventional to sport karate point fighting. Others stand like boxers, or kickboxers, even some like Muay Thai stylists.... In jiyu kumite, our instructors pretty much allow the students to use whatever form they like.
Hmm! Are you aware that this is a TKD forum and the OP is referring specifically to WTF schools and WTF competition? ;)

Absolutely nothing to do with karate and nothing to do with the type of sparring you see in sport karate. I am assuming the question is asked because in WTF competition there is very little chance of a punch to the jaw but in real life you risk getting hit in the face if you are not prepared to cover up.
 

Thousand Kicks

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In my travels I have studied at 4 WTF sport focused schools. 2 of the instructors specifically mentioned keeping your chin tucked while the other 2 never made mention of it.

My most recent instructor is easily the most accomplished fighter I have ever trained with and he always calls for hands up and chins down. Specifically when doing axe kicks he says don't lean back and keep your chin down.

Every other style I have studied makes it very clear that you don't want your head high in the air.

To Touch of Death,

I'm not sure why you say tucking your chin takes your awareness away from anything not in front of you. This would only seem to be true if you are purposefully blocking your peripheral vision.
 

Manny

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Hello there, the new boss has change the way the kids sparr (WTF style) using a guard that's really silly to me and is this something like this, a twi kubi stance with the leading arm low like in are makki and the off arm to the side of the head (guarding it??), this leaves all the torso and above open for a disaster!!

My guard is up my stande is a boxer style and the guard is boxer style, both arms bent covering with my elbows my side and both ahnds clenched covering my head at chin level.

Manny
 

Thousand Kicks

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Hello there, the new boss has change the way the kids sparr (WTF style) using a guard that's really silly to me and is this something like this, a twi kubi stance with the leading arm low like in are makki and the off arm to the side of the head (guarding it??), this leaves all the torso and above open for a disaster!!

My guard is up my stande is a boxer style and the guard is boxer style, both arms bent covering with my elbows my side and both ahnds clenched covering my head at chin level.

Manny

I understand what your saying, but there are several types of guards. You mention the traditional boxer stance; hands up, elbows in. There's the Philly Shell; body turned sideways, power hand up by the head lead arm low covering the body (think Thomas "Hitman" Hearns or Floyd Mayweather). There's the peek-a-boo; body more square to opponent, arms stay in tight, usually covering all or part of the head (think Mike Tyson in his early years). Each guard has advantages and disadvantages. You should play around with different guards to see how your opponent reacts.
 

drop bear

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Tucking your chin is a luxury provided for the ring. It kills your awareness, to anything that is not right in front of you; however, tuck if you can. :)

Because that shoulder obscures your vision.
 

Touch Of Death

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In my travels I have studied at 4 WTF sport focused schools. 2 of the instructors specifically mentioned keeping your chin tucked while the other 2 never made mention of it.

My most recent instructor is easily the most accomplished fighter I have ever trained with and he always calls for hands up and chins down. Specifically when doing axe kicks he says don't lean back and keep your chin down.

Every other style I have studied makes it very clear that you don't want your head high in the air.

To Touch of Death,

I'm not sure why you say tucking your chin takes your awareness away from anything not in front of you. This would only seem to be true if you are purposefully blocking your peripheral vision.
Fighting with your head down is safe in the ring, but it cause a few issues on the street. First of all, it is a big telegraph. You look like you are focused on hitting someone. Secondly, it drives your weight forward, and make you top heavy, and therefore open to Big Jerry Springer shots to the top of your head, and more easily doubled over. If I scare, or hurt you enough to pop your head up, you then can be easily swept, or pushed at your weakest base of support.

Look, boxing happens in a box, while fighting is out of the box. :)
 
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Gwai Lo Dan

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I think this is one of the silliest lines of reasoning I have ever heard. I have visited traditional karate schools of many styles & nationality in my area. Never have I heard an instructor or student act as if they don't need to guard the head, in any of the components of the curriculum.
Not sure if you are saying my question is silly. As I posted, I was told no need to guard the head against a punch since it is not allowed in tkd. So that's why I asked if your shcool teaches different stances, particularly in terms of tucking the chin, for self-defense vs tournaments.
 

ShotoNoob

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Not sure if you are saying my question is silly. As I posted, I was told no need to guard the head against a punch since it is not allowed in tkd. So that's why I asked if your shcool teaches different stances, particularly in terms of tucking the chin, for self-defense vs tournaments.
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My response wasn't directed at you personally. In the environment you speak of, YES the issue is one for consideration.
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At my school, there is no formal instruction in tucking the chin. The traditional instruction is in achieving for example, "mental clarity, which powers your defense.
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I wasn't aware TKD, or your rule set prohibited hand strikes to the head. I thought it was NO CONTACT to the head. My understanding was that was KyoKushin kumite convention.
 
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ShotoNoob

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Hmm! Are you aware that this is a TKD forum and the OP is referring specifically to WTF schools and WTF competition? ;)
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Please educate me on the WTF rule set.

Absolutely nothing to do with karate and nothing to do with the type of sparring you see in sport karate. I am assuming the question is asked because in WTF competition there is very little chance of a punch to the jaw but in real life you risk getting hit in the face if you are not prepared to cover up.
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To me, TKD lies under the umbrella of traditional karate. Obviously a separate branch from Japanese karate. As to the WTF sparring conventions, would appreciate a synopsis. Thanks.
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In real life, traditional karate has defense for strikes @ the face. Covering up is not among them.
 

K-man

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Please educate me on the WTF rule set.
Certainly ...

Taekwondo Sparring Techniques You Can Do

Basically you can punch (with a clenched fist).

And you can kick with any part of your foot below your ankle.

And that's it.

No other techniques are allowed only punches and kicks.

You can kick to two places. Your opponent's chest protector or head.

You can punch your opponent's chest protector. (Although it's got to be a very powerful punch to score!)

You can't punch your opponent in the head or face.

You can't kick or punch your opponent's spine or below their chest protector.
WTF Taekwondo Sparring Rules - a simple up-to-date guide

To me, TKD lies under the umbrella of traditional karate. Obviously a separate branch from Japanese karate. As to the WTF sparring conventions, would appreciate a synopsis. Thanks.
Obviously TKD is totally separate to its Shotokan roots but I would suggest that it is absolutely nothing like traditional karate. Traditional karate, as was developed in Okinawa, is very much hands on grappling and striking, totally different to TKD.

As to WTF sparring ... see the rule set above.

In real life, traditional karate has defense for strikes @ the face. Covering up is not among them.
Perhaps you could show me how you think a traditional karateka would protect against a surprise attack to the head or even when on the ground surrounded by several attackers if he isn't going to cover up. Further, as someone who teaches 'there are no blocks in karate' I would love to see an example of how you defend against strikes to the head.
 

sopraisso

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Does your WTF-style school talk about or teach tucking the chin?

I was in class yesterday, and had my chin tucked in a "fighting stance" with both hands high up (high relative to the common TKD "fighting stance") and was told to lift my head up. The instructor showed me how to stand straight up, and my off-the-cuff comment (perhaps unrespectfully, admittedly) was "you'll get punched in the chin" and showed a few punches without contact.

Her reply was "punching to the face isn't allowed". So I clearly understood she was thinking about WTF-style sparring.

But it got me thinking - do you teach or get taught different stances for self-defence vs tournaments? And more specifically, does your school ever talk about tucking the chin?
If you have an opportunity of assuming a "fighting stance", it has nothing to do with self defense. Just adapt to the rule set and be happy knowing what you are doing or, if you want to practice real self defense, go train something aimed at actual self defense - no WTF, MMA or boxing sparring have anything to do with it.
 

Touch Of Death

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If you have an opportunity of assuming a "fighting stance", it has nothing to do with self defense. Just adapt to the rule set and be happy knowing what you are doing or, if you want to practice real self defense, go train something aimed at actual self defense - no WTF, MMA or boxing sparring have anything to do with it.
These skills may both help and hurt you, in real life.
 
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