Trapping.... Useless?

[Hand Sword]

Funny thing, it works for them too. How about all of the BJJ reversals/escapes? How many describe it as trapping up a limb to describe the motions? How about arm wraps in MT? Neck cranks for throws/control, with knee strikes? Underhooking in tie ups? Tie ups themselves? All traps!

 

[Drac]

Many of the weapon retention techniques we teach work off of trapping the hand..

 

[Shotgun Buddha]

In my class, if someone takes a knife and puts the point of it at your throat, then a trap would work to control that hand while you do something else to get out of the threat. Done correctly, the attacker would be in real bad shape when it's all said and done. I've seen people trap limbs and not even realize that they were doing it. Ares

If someone has a knife point at your throat then whatever you do has a pretty high risk of getting your throat cut.

 

[Shotgun Buddha]

Funny thing, it works for them too. How about all of the BJJ reversals/escapes? How many describe it as trapping up a limb to describe the motions? How about arm wraps in MT? Neck cranks for throws/control, with knee strikes? Underhooking in tie ups? Tie ups themselves? All traps!

Working on a different principle though.
Most competition related trapping works on the base of first pin the body and move outwards to an extremity. You disable the large before going after the small.
Whereas alot non-competition traps work from the extremities inwards, disabling the smaller to gain access to the larger.

The first principle works well during a conflict.
The second principle works well prior to the conflict has fully escalated.
So just use them where appropriate.

 

[zDom]

I've seen people trap limbs and not even realize that they were doing it.

Funny how this subject comes up now...

This weekend I competed in a tournament.

During the match, my opponent threw an "blind" spinning technique. He was trying for a backfist but smacked me with his elbow right in the face.

This happened to be the SECOND time he had smacked me with excessive contact with a blind technique (blind meaning, I was looking at the back of his head and he couldn't see what he was swinging at), the first incident having happened about a year ago.

So about a minute later I bridged the gap on him again, ending up with him turning his back to me again.

Without thinking, I used my left arm to pin his left arm up against his body while I gave him a hard shot to the head

Observers told me about it later, but I had to watch the tape before I realized what I had done

Funny thing is, my training partner ALSO did a trap-punch combination in HIS match (different division) the same day! (Also unintentional). His was a circular wrap — counterclockwise circle with his left arm to trap the opponent's arm (something right out of our technique curriculum).

I'm thinking traps DO work, if the time and timing is right. Kind of a pre-emptive block of sorts.

 

[Infinite]

I'm thinking traps DO work, if the time and timing is right. Kind of a pre-emptive block of sorts.

Aha so the wisdom of Bruce Lee,

Trapping is the moment when the attacker chooses to attack but before he has a chance to complete the motion. You are taking advantage of the opening created by the attack.

That is the whole point of trapping it is a preemptive strike designed to limit the options of the attacker and give you more options.

--Infy

 

[Hand Sword]

Working on a different principle though.
Most competition related trapping works on the base of first pin the body and move outwards to an extremity. You disable the large before going after the small.
Whereas alot non-competition traps work from the extremities inwards, disabling the smaller to gain access to the larger.

The first principle works well during a conflict.
The second principle works well prior to the conflict has fully escalated.
So just use them where appropriate.

I agree. I was just pointing out that trapping wasn't useless, and that all of the above who pooped on it, though applying it differently, still ended up "trapping". The principle for me is trapping itself. The ways of doing it are adapted, opponent to opponent, but the overall result is the same.

 

[Seeking Zen]

Last night we had sparring class. I am not sure where it came from or how it has developed but I have this block / trap that just fell into place. It is kind of a middle area block (chudan uki...nice spelling) that while deflecting the opponents blow wraps around the opponents forearm / elbow. It traps the hand near or at the armpit and locks the elbow with your wrist. This was successful twice last night ...once led to take down both times I managed multiple blows. So it seems to work for me for now. Mind you I am still very new...maybe it was fluke. So overall I think traps work depending on the opponent and situation. Maybe even more important is what you do with precious flash of time immediately after a successful trap or lock.

 

[Shotgun Buddha]

I agree. I was just pointing out that trapping wasn't useless, and that all of the above who pooped on it, though applying it differently, still ended up "trapping". The principle for me is trapping itself. The ways of doing it are adapted, opponent to opponent, but the overall result is the same.

I think the problem is that not enough people train to adapt it to different situations, its one of those skills which people prefer to only practice within their "comfort zone".
Most people who would practice pre-emptive trapping or as an isolated techniques, are not likely to have to have tried using them on an experienced grappler.
And most competitive fighters are highly unlikely to train in techniques that occur prior to conflict.
Just a case of people not really examining what goes on outside what they do I guess.

 

[Shotgun Buddha]

Last night we had sparring class. I am not sure where it came from or how it has developed but I have this block / trap that just fell into place. It is kind of a middle area block (chudan uki...nice spelling) that while deflecting the opponents blow wraps around the opponents forearm / elbow. It traps the hand near or at the armpit and locks the elbow with your wrist. This was successful twice last night ...once led to take down both times I managed multiple blows. So it seems to work for me for now. Mind you I am still very new...maybe it was fluke. So overall I think traps work depending on the opponent and situation. Maybe even more important is what you do with precious flash of time immediately after a successful trap or lock.

It tends to be a textbook technique in a lot of striking styles. Be pretty careful about ever trying it against an experience fighter though.

 

[Robert Lee]

If you look at a trap as a removel tool. Removing the obstruction to be abl to hit. Then you have a working tool .To trap and not have the follow up then you trapped to just be trapping. Which does not work as well. Traps are not easy to apply if you try. But easy when you just do them. Think of a trap as a by product to hit or to clinch or any offence move. Kinda opening the door

 

[kidswarrior]

Thats always good for a laugh. Hmmm.

Hence my new policy for self-defence: I shall now when threatened, shed my clothes and fight with naught to fear but pneumonia.

Speaking of good for a laugh! Just the sight of me standing there in nothing but the altogether would probably do them in!!!!! :uhyeah: Great self defense strategy! And a bonus: The less I train, the more effective my technique (think: sag).

 

[kidswarrior]

Good question. This one actually made me think. So, here's my opinion.

All of us have preferences and different natural aptitudes in fighting. I'm a natural striker, so woudn't rely on grappling much unless I had no choice (in training and teaching, of course, I can't afford to leave anything out; but just talking about me personally now--and by the way, I'm way too old to care about sport fighting--so this applies only to street).

Given my preference, the times I have actually used a trap have come from first blocking a strike or pinning a grab (both already mentioned by others). So, trapping would not be my lead move (unless I was attempting suicide), nor would it be my final move: I trap in order to effect a takedown. I believe if a fight becomes inevitable, it should end on the ground--for him.

OK I'm done. :soapbox: I promise to make most posts much shorter. :whip1:

 

[14 Kempo]

I am a kempo practitioner and I use trapping all the time. I do not hold onto the trap, but use it to manipulate my opponent to an off-balance situation where I can take advantage. We utilize many different types of traps in our system. I would agree that if you trap and hold onto it, it may get you into an unwanted situation.

 

[shrek]

Trapping...Effective

Sadly it is not focuused on as often as it should be in training. In Aikido/judo/etc it IS the focus but a lot of instructors in other arts have a tendancy to pass trapping by in favor of flashy kicks & strikes.

I'll also relate my first experience with a trap...I got caught in a right hand wristlock when trying to break up a fight at a bar I worked at early in my career, of course it stopped my progress and got my full attention. I couldn't pull free and since USTA TKD didn't teach joint locks/traps/sweeps or defense against them, I was stuck. Since I was near a wall I grabbed the guy by his ponytail with my left hand and smashed his head against the wall until he passed out & let go. I ended up with a lightly sprained wrist and a burning desire to know how to deal with that sort of thing so Aikido became my next training ground. You live, you learn, you adapt.

 

[Drac]

Sadly it is not focuused on as often as it should be in training. In Aikido/judo/etc it IS the focus but a lot of instructors in other arts have a tendancy to pass trapping by in favor of flashy kicks & strikes/quote]

Sad but true...

 

[Robert Lee]

Traps do take time to understand. But if you trap just to trap they really do not workout. If you can hit do not trap if you can kick do not trap. If you can do any offence or defence move no need to trap. Now if you need removel trap to enter Perhaps trap to exit a hold And go on. people make the mistake of trying to trap and it does not work Trap and follow up Like a block if you do not follow up you get hit agin same with traps And live training traps to must be for the moment Or something changes. Even Bruce moved away from traps When not needed, By product of hitting Is a way to look at trapping. If you can slip and hit why trap Traps are good if just done when needed They tie up the limb long enough to do something Legs to can be trapped just as arms

 

[DavidCC]

Thats always good for a laugh. Hmmm. Also though of another factor - clothes. Most trapping is easily done because a person goes to grip a piece of clothing, whereas in a ring fight they are usually lacking in grippable tops.
Hence my new policy for self-defence: I shall now when threatened, shed my clothes and fight with naught to fear but pneumonia.