Defense Against The Hairgrab

[MJS]

While a hairgrab may not be as common an attack for a male, many females often have long hair. That being said, its very possible that during an assault, their hair will be grabbed.

I'm interested in hearing how you teach your students to defend this type of attack.

Mike

 

[Xue Sheng]

I don’t have students right now and there are multiple ways to grab someone’s hair but if it is a grab from the front.

Basically the attacker is standing facing you and just reaches up and grabs the hair on top of your head. Reach up and grab his hand (I suggest using both hands if possible), in front of his wrist, and push his hand down against your head. Then bend forward at the waist, he will let go, and then you can turn that into a wristlock as you stand up.

It is also advisable to step back with the leg of your choice to get a better and more stable stance and allow you to bend lower as well as pull the attacker down, forward and off balance.

 

[shesulsa]

I don’t have students right now and there are multiple ways to grab someone’s hair but if it is a grab from the front.

Basically the attacker is standing facing you and just reaches up and grabs the hair on top of your head. Reach up and grab his hand (I suggest using both hands if possible), in front of his wrist, and push his hand down against your head. Then bend forward at the waist, he will let go, and then you can turn that into a wristlock as you stand up.

It is also advisable to step back with the leg of your choice to get a better and more stable stance and allow you to bend lower as well as pull the attacker down, forward and off balance.

Ditto most of that ...

Trapping the hand to the head gives you control of the attacker's hand and relieves the pull on the scalp. I wouldn't recommend bending at the waist too much because your balance can be compromised, rather bend at the knees and if face-to-face stepping in before pivoting for the torque and lock rather than out.

 

[Blindside]

So if you are two hands on one while trying to get this wristlock, what is the attacker doing with the other hand? And from the description all that attacker has to do to relieve pressure on the wrist is to drop his elbow, bringing his arm into a mechanically strong position.

As a male (particularly as a male who used to have very long hair), I envision the hair grab to immediately be followed by the other hand punching to the side of the face. So I drive forward with my legs as the person pulls in, use the same side hand to help collapse the elbow and give me some control over thier arm (so if they grab with their left, you control with your right), and use the left hand to drive to something vital (throat/eye/nose/whatever) and simultaneously shielding your face with the upper portion of your arm (turtling). If your forward push breaks their posture, you usually have a good knee to the groin available.

Lamont

 

[Xue Sheng]

Ditto most of that ...

Trapping the hand to the head gives you control of the attacker's hand and relieves the pull on the scalp. I wouldn't recommend bending at the waist too much because your balance can be compromised, rather bend at the knees and if face-to-face stepping in before pivoting for the torque and lock rather than out.

That is why I added step back with the leg of your choice, although it is not always necessary. Away from pulls the attacker down and forward. Stepping into would not work for this application; it’s a Chinese Qinna thing, stepping in different directions dose different things. Nor is there any turning of the body for the application I posted.

And for this application bending at the knees will not torque the attackers wrist properly for them to feel pain and let go and thereby giving you multiple other options for what you want to do next. Be that lock, take down and step on them or take them down let go and run away. If you bend at the knees it will not work.

I am not saying what you suggest would not work, I am certain that it would. And I am not being argumentative but understand there are multiple ways to defend against a hair grab, this is just one of them. And different styles approach it differently.

 

[Xue Sheng]

So if you are two hands on one while trying to get this wristlock, what is the attacker doing with the other hand? And from the description all that attacker has to do to relieve pressure on the wrist is to drop his elbow, bringing his arm into a mechanically strong position.

As a male (particularly as a male who used to have very long hair), I envision the hair grab to immediately be followed by the other hand punching to the side of the face. So I drive forward with my legs as the person pulls in, use the same side hand to help collapse the elbow and give me some control over thier arm (so if they grab with their left, you control with your right), and use the left hand to drive to something vital (throat/eye/nose/whatever) and simultaneously shielding your face with the upper portion of your arm (turtling). If your forward push breaks their posture, you usually have a good knee to the groin available.

Lamont

This is exactly why I was extremely hesitant to post anything at all.

If you post anything someone else can and will find flaws with it because not all applications work in all situations.

If you use the applications I posted it is done actually quite fast. They grab you respond. It does not rule out other options and counters.

OK now I'm about to go off topic and rant a bit too.

This is also why I have a hard time with any training that is a class called "self defense for woman" or "how not to be a victim" or any other names you can come up with that are in a 1 to 3 hour of 1 to 2 day seminar format.

I have come across several teachers of these classes over the years and students of these classes over the years and every single time without fail when they wanted to demonstrate on me what they teach or what they learn it was always been 1 or both of the following responses

1) No you can't use your left

2) Your not suppose to relax

There are WAY to many variables in the real world for such classes and in my opinion they tend to, for the most part, give people a false sense of security. They would be better off being taught how to be aware of your surroundings or VERY simple things such as eye gouges, groin kicks, step on the attackers foot, kick them in the knee, Not locks and complicated moves.

 

[Blindside]

This is exactly why I was extremely hesitant to post anything at all.

If you post anything someone else can and will find flaws with it because not all applications work in all situations.

If you use the applications I posted it is done actually quite fast. They grab you respond. It does not rule out other options and counters.

It isn't about "finding flaws" its about starting discussion. Your technique initiates earlier than mine (hand does not have a fistful of hair, arm is not retracting yet), mine assumes that the hair has actually been grabbed and the person is then following up with something else. I posted my technique because it does not require as good timing and can be intiated from a surprised state (ex. grab came from rear). The point is to talk about why we do such things, and what are the counters.

And I agree with you one most short-term self defense classes, joint locks are advanced, not intro material.

 

[shesulsa]

This is exactly why I was extremely hesitant to post anything at all.

If you post anything someone else can and will find flaws with it because not all applications work in all situations.

If you use the applications I posted it is done actually quite fast. They grab you respond. It does not rule out other options and counters.

OK now I'm about to go off topic and rant a bit too.

This is also why I have a hard time with any training that is a class called "self defense for woman" or "how not to be a victim" or any other names you can come up with that are in a 1 to 3 hour of 1 to 2 day seminar format.

I have come across several teachers of these classes over the years and students of these classes over the years and every single time without fail when they wanted to demonstrate on me what they teach or what they learn it was always been 1 or both of the following responses

1) No you can't use your left

2) Your not suppose to relax

There are WAY to many variables in the real world for such classes and in my opinion they tend to, for the most part, give people a false sense of security. They would be better off being taught how to be aware of your surroundings or VERY simple things such as eye gouges, groin kicks, step on the attackers foot, kick them in the knee, Not locks and complicated moves.

Good post and I agree.

Please understand that my posted alteration to the technique *I think you described* was in the spirit of variables and approaches ... which way you step is going to set the opponent up for a certain approach.

On the self-defense seminar and joint locks, I completely agree. I tried teaching some - and still do teach one or two - but not everyone gets it to the extent that it can be an automatic response, part and parcel of the release/defense. It's so hard to express in words what I'm talking about, but I think we agree more than disagree here. :asian:

 

[shesulsa]

So if you are two hands on one while trying to get this wristlock, what is the attacker doing with the other hand? And from the description all that attacker has to do to relieve pressure on the wrist is to drop his elbow, bringing his arm into a mechanically strong position.

As a male (particularly as a male who used to have very long hair), I envision the hair grab to immediately be followed by the other hand punching to the side of the face. So I drive forward with my legs as the person pulls in, use the same side hand to help collapse the elbow and give me some control over thier arm (so if they grab with their left, you control with your right), and use the left hand to drive to something vital (throat/eye/nose/whatever) and simultaneously shielding your face with the upper portion of your arm (turtling). If your forward push breaks their posture, you usually have a good knee to the groin available.

Lamont

We have many "techniques" for defense against a hairgrab and they are meant for variables. There are not necessarily two hands on the grabbing hand - one hand should be free to counter the coming attack.

 

[Mark L]

We practice multiple techniques also, and we always begin by grabbing the hand at the wrist to take the pressure off of the scalp. Our most basic technique has us rotate in with a hard knife hand strike straight down on the bicep to 'shock' the arm and release the grab, chambering the strike also serves as a check against the other hand attacking.

Xue Sheng, my experience is that posting any technique will inevitably result in debate, sometimes informative, sometimes petty. That's fine, I know what I do works and I'm fine with talking about it.

 

[jks9199]

This is exactly why I was extremely hesitant to post anything at all.

If you post anything someone else can and will find flaws with it because not all applications work in all situations.

It's also very difficult to describe things in words that are clear enough for someone to really understand what you're doing. For example, you send "bend forward" and someone could read that as something like "bend way forward at the waist" when you may have simple meant lean forward slightly.

OK now I'm about to go off topic and rant a bit too.

This is also why I have a hard time with any training that is a class called "self defense for woman" or "how not to be a victim" or any other names you can come up with that are in a 1 to 3 hour of 1 to 2 day seminar format.

I have come across several teachers of these classes over the years and students of these classes over the years and every single time without fail when they wanted to demonstrate on me what they teach or what they learn it was always been 1 or both of the following responses

1) No you can't use your left

2) Your not suppose to relax

There are WAY to many variables in the real world for such classes and in my opinion they tend to, for the most part, give people a false sense of security. They would be better off being taught how to be aware of your surroundings or VERY simple things such as eye gouges, groin kicks, step on the attackers foot, kick them in the knee, Not locks and complicated moves.

You can't teach much in a few hours -- but you can teach awareness. Short format classes like that should concentrate more on recognizing dangers and avoiding them, and probably throw a simple move or two in. Real techniques take repeated exposure and practice, probably over several days or weeks. When I teach self-defense classes, everything is built from the same principles; the circle that is used to break a grab is also the basis of the blocking technique and so on... Everything reinforces everything else. And I stress awareness, attitude, and "how not to look like a victim" in each session, as well -- because that's more important than any physical skills that they may well forget next week.

I'll never forget one "self-defense" technique I saw taught years ago. It was beautiful, and probably right out of a police defensive tactics manual cleaned up and refined with "real" martial arts. It had something like 13 or 14 steps, and ended with the attacker in a perfect armbar. OK... But who's gonna remember 13 or 14 steps after a one day class? And, if they do, what are they gonna do with this guy now that he's in an armbar? I'm a cop; I'll cuff him! Self defense isn't about cuffing; it's about dealing with an attack and getting away... (OK... My rant's over now!)

 

[Xue Sheng]

It isn't about "finding flaws" its about starting discussion. Your technique initiates earlier than mine (hand does not have a fistful of hair, arm is not retracting yet), mine assumes that the hair has actually been grabbed and the person is then following up with something else. I posted my technique because it does not require as good timing and can be intiated from a surprised state (ex. grab came from rear). The point is to talk about why we do such things, and what are the counters.

And I agree with you one most short-term self defense classes, joint locks are advanced, not intro material.

I am not critiquing what you said to do, although I felt I was being critiqued sorry if I miss understood.

There are multiple defenses against just about everything, and I am basing this on my Qinna training so I cannot speak for any other style or defense. A wrist grab defense can have the same initial application but yet depending on the force being applied you step forward or backward.

Same with a hair grab, it all depends on from where they grab your hair from and how close they are when they grab it the amount of force applied, etc. Grab from behind if there close kick them in the knee hard or if they pull follow the exact direction of the pull IF that is what the situation requires. There are always counters and counters for counters there is no 1 answer to this question that covers all situations and scenarios.

And as a note in mine the hair has been grabbed.

And you are not the only male that use to have long hair, I may be old but I assure you it was not always the case.

Also as previously stated by jks9199 it is hard to describe things verbally and generally it takes WAY to much typing.


But in response to others that have posted
I did not realize this was a debate based on the initial post but if it is I apologize for the intrusion, could also be Iam just tired, old, beat up (today) and cranky and with that I am out.

 

[Steel Tiger]

I don’t have students right now and there are multiple ways to grab someone’s hair but if it is a grab from the front.

Basically the attacker is standing facing you and just reaches up and grabs the hair on top of your head. Reach up and grab his hand (I suggest using both hands if possible), in front of his wrist, and push his hand down against your head. Then bend forward at the waist, he will let go, and then you can turn that into a wristlock as you stand up.

It is also advisable to step back with the leg of your choice to get a better and more stable stance and allow you to bend lower as well as pull the attacker down, forward and off balance.

This is a technique I know by the name of Child Worships the Buddha. It has been suggested that it does not involve the attacker having a handful of hair, but that doesn't really matter. The pressure placed on the hand causes it to open up which allows for the secondary effect of a minor wrist lock.

Generally speaking qinna techniques like this are not used in isolation but are immediately followed by another technique, in this case I would use one called Placing Incense At the Alter which involves an outward twist of the wrist resulting in either a throw or a broken wrist.

It true, however, that you have to be aware of the assailants other hand throughout. Don't want a punch in the head, afterall.

 

[Xue Sheng]

This is a technique I know by the name of Child Worships the Buddha. It has been suggested that it does not involve the attacker having a handful of hair, but that doesn't really matter. The pressure placed on the hand causes it to open up which allows for the secondary effect of a minor wrist lock.

Generally speaking qinna techniques like this are not used in isolation but are immediately followed by another technique, in this case I would use one called Placing Incense At the Alter which involves an outward twist of the wrist resulting in either a throw or a broken wrist.

It true, however, that you have to be aware of the assailants other hand throughout. Don't want a punch in the head, afterall.

Agreed

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Lot's and lot's of different opportunities present themself when your hair is grabbed. One method that is commonly taught is to relieve the pain by applying pressure with one of your hands over the top of their hand. After that the techniques wether striking, trapping, joint manipulations or moving into grappling are pretty enormous.

One of the things I like to do is Trap with one hand and apply pressure to take away their ability to apply enormous pain. My off hand is then concentrating on closing and negating their off hand (strike,trap, etc) and my legs will then be moving and focused on positioning myself for a leg destruction technique on one of the opponents legs. (leg lock with pressure to blow out their knee) This works very nicely in my experience and is a real surprise to someone not expecting it. However this is just one option.

 

[charyuop]

XS, just a question. I tried to figure out your technique, more that the other hand I was wondering if you shouldn't worry more about feet. Bending down will bring you face lower thus good target for a kick in the face...

I would see maybe less dangerous grabbing the wrist and stepping on the side of the arm grabbing you thus leaving the arm wider and from there either kick the external part of the knee or leaning forward a little and placin the other hand on his elbow go for an arm bar (ikkyo for who does Aikido). But of course it is just a theory that popped in my head, a thing that I might try in that situation without having never practiced this problem.

 

[INDYFIGHTER]

Shave your head.:uhyeah:

 

[MJS]

Great replies! Sorry I didn't comment sooner. I'm in agreement with pinning the hands. This should take away some of the pressure. I don't advocate bending over too far, for the reasons stated. Pinning their hand properly should make the attacker bend slightly forward.

I've seen some techniques transition to a joint lock, which is also an option. Someone mentioned what the attacker is doing with his other hand. This is of course a good point, because I think many times, during defenses we forget about the free limbs. However, in this case, I'd think that unless the attacker is targetting the body, the head is pretty much covered by your own arms and elbows.

Mike

 

[MJS]

Something I forgot to add. Take into consideration what the person is doing once he grabs. Chances are, hes not going to just stand there holding your hair, but instead, start to manipulate your head.

Mike

 

[Xue Sheng]

XS, just a question. I tried to figure out your technique, more that the other hand I was wondering if you shouldn't worry more about feet. Bending down will bring you face lower thus good target for a kick in the face...

I would see maybe less dangerous grabbing the wrist and stepping on the side of the arm grabbing you thus leaving the arm wider and from there either kick the external part of the knee or leaning forward a little and placin the other hand on his elbow go for an arm bar (ikkyo for who does Aikido). But of course it is just a theory that popped in my head, a thing that I might try in that situation without having never practiced this problem.

Not that I am into quoting myself but it saves me typing this again

There are multiple defenses against just about everything, and I am basing this on my Qinna training so I cannot speak for any other style or defense. A wrist grab defense can have the same initial application but yet depending on the force being applied you step forward or backward.

Same with a hair grab, it all depends on from where they grab your hair from and how close they are when they grab it the amount of force applied, etc. Grab from behind if there close kick them in the knee hard or if they pull follow the exact direction of the pull IF that is what the situation requires. There are always counters and counters for counters there is no 1 answer to this question that covers all situations and scenarios.

I do not have the time to go into great detail which would amount to a whole lot of typing on my part, when to be honest I do not feel the need to defend the application. And regardless of what I say there will always be someone that has a better way to do it and maybe they do, I am not arguing for the best way to defend against a hair grab. The original post asked for ways to defend against a hair grab and I posted one. If you like feel free to post another I am not here in this post to critique anything anyone has said, I do not train aikido (which is very circular,) or judo or multiple other styles. I can only speak form the styles I have been trained in and the applications in those styles

Let’s just leave it at if you don't like the application don't use it, :asian:

Bye now

To anyone that read this post before I edited it, my apologies as previously stated I am just being old and grumpy.