Thoughts on Trapping

[LegLockGuy]

I have talked to practioners of different arts about the concept/practice of trapping. (such as in Wing Chun, JKD, ect) It seems to be split. Many think it's a great way to stop your opponent's attack, and open up a slot for your own attack. While others say trapping will not work well in a fight, that someone who throws combinations will not get trapped. What are your feelings about trapping?

 

[Stan]

I have talked to practioners of different arts about the concept/practice of trapping. (such as in Wing Chun, JKD, ect) It seems to be split. Many think it's a great way to stop your opponent's attack, and open up a slot for your own attack. While others say trapping will not work well in a fight, that someone who throws combinations will not get trapped. What are your feelings about trapping?

I believe in general that trapping starts with offense. At least this is a large part of the trapping methodology taught in Modern Arnis, and it makes sense to me. To train trapping, you use a partner who agrees to stay in trapping range, maintain contact and practice trapping skills. To apply trapping in a real situation, you don't look for the trap. Trapping isn't grappling, but rather a way of setting an opponent up for strikes.

Although there are locks hidden in many traps, trapping is not about submission, but rather percussion.

Therefore, if you have a "boxer" or someone who doesn't want to play in trapping range, and keeps trying to get his hands free, the last thing you want to do as a trapper is go grabbing for his hands or arms trying to force a trap. It will not work, it will slow you down, and you will get pummeled.

A trap is a response to an offensive movement that was parried or blocked. I punch, you block. Momentarily, the arm that you blocked my punch with is not an offensive weapon, not a threat to me. I trap that arm to give me momentarily longer where that hand is not a threat to me, then I continue, resume or restart my attack.

At least, that's how it should work. I know there are people on this board much more familiar with trapping than me. I'd like to know their thoughts, and if I got anything wrong.

Thank you,
Stan

 

[bushidomartialarts]

trapping falls in the same area as finger locks and pressure points for me.

it takes a lot of skill and practice to be able to pull it off in the chaos of a fight. until you've developed that level of skill and put in the hours of practice, best to stick with the simple stuff: elbow the the throat, knee to the groin, easy arm wraps.

or better yet, leaving the bar without getting into a tussel.

still, it's great fun to practice and can be very useful (especially against drunk people) once you've got the hang.

 

[CuongNhuka]

I find there are really two times to trapp: before they strike and when they throw a haymaker. If they have a closed in gaurd you can trapp both hands and smash there face in. If they throw a haymaker (an over exaggerated hook punch) you can land a hand just inside there shoulder and effectivly trapp it.

 

[PeaceWarrior]

I have talked to practioners of different arts about the concept/practice of trapping. (such as in Wing Chun, JKD, ect) It seems to be split. Many think it's a great way to stop your opponent's attack, and open up a slot for your own attack. While others say trapping will not work well in a fight, that someone who throws combinations will not get trapped. What are your feelings about trapping?

First off, I would note that (from what Ive learned) any trapping JKD has probably more than likely came from Wing Chun, which is famous for its "trapping hands" Not trying to discredit JKD or Bruce Lee at all, just pointing that out.

I agree with bushido because in a real fight, trapping requires a high degree of skill to pull of effectively. however I believe that along with joint locks and pressure points, it is very handy to know and could come in very useful if applied correctly.

 

[Keikai]

The type of block that you do makes it possible to do trapping movements. We use soft blocks in which we take the attacker's wrist, arm or leg as the case may be, while they are in the attacking motion and continue it. Hard blocks tend to stop the attacker's motion and they get a chance to recover and resist. Soft blocks are the trick. Aikido do the same. You have to fit in with the attacker's action. Yes it does take practice but if that is what you mainly do then it becomes second nature and not that hard.

With combination attacks you may miss the first or even second but you will eventually get one of them. The trick is to stay off line while you do it.

Tsutsumi Ryu Ju Jutsu

 

[Rich Parsons]

I have talked to practioners of different arts about the concept/practice of trapping. (such as in Wing Chun, JKD, ect) It seems to be split. Many think it's a great way to stop your opponent's attack, and open up a slot for your own attack. While others say trapping will not work well in a fight, that someone who throws combinations will not get trapped. What are your feelings about trapping?

Joint locks and finger locks do not work either in a real fight or sparring match. Yet sometimes one can pull them off. But if one never trains something the likelihood that it will occur is about zero. Yet, one can make decisions and decide to train in what they want for the reasons they want.

 

[Robert Lee]

First to look at a trap. Is you trap to remove an obstruction. Be it a strike or guard position. Trap to hit never trap to just trap. Idea is hit hit trap hit some more. JKD trapping is a little different then direct wing chun trapping. And as you develop in skill You would trap much less. using stop hit/ interception. slip, weave, bob, What ever to enable you to hit. Trapping takes time to get good at when done in a more live action You to trap the in coming striking arm you would simply be following it home as no one pauses after the punch. In a way the clinch can be used as trapping if you look at it. But when you can hit without a parry or trap Never do either. Just hit Bruce moved further away from wing chun as he developed his Own way. Is wing chun a good art Yes if you learn to use what you learned. Any art is the same if you can take a workable amount from it make it your own It did what it was supposed to help you And then you have leg traps also That come into play and are workable If learned

 

[PeaceWarrior]

Joint locks and finger locks do not work either in a real fight or sparring match. Yet sometimes one can pull them off.

Just because they are difficult and require a high degree of speed, precision, sensitivity, and power, doesnt mean they "do not work." I wouldnt recommend using them in a sparring match anyways because there is a good chance if you do the technique right you could break a wrist, finger, or do some serious damage to the tendons. In a real fight however, that doesnt matter, and you can act without reserve.

I should also point out that joint locks are much more likely to work if your art involves "sticking" or yeilding.

 

[pstarr]

There's a time for them and times not to try to apply them...sure, they require plenty of training but so does pretty much everything we do! That's why we practice....!

 

[Rich Parsons]

Just because they are difficult and require a high degree of speed, precision, sensitivity, and power, doesnt mean they "do not work." I wouldnt recommend using them in a sparring match anyways because there is a good chance if you do the technique right you could break a wrist, finger, or do some serious damage to the tendons. In a real fight however, that doesnt matter, and you can act without reserve.

I should also point out that joint locks are much more likely to work if your art involves "sticking" or yeilding.

** Wisper Voice **
Pssst PeaceWarrior, I use Joint locks and I also trap. I forgot the Sarcasm Smiley. Do you forgive me?

 

[airdawg]

Trap it if you can. If you can't, strike.

 

[PeaceWarrior]

** Wisper Voice **
Pssst PeaceWarrior, I use Joint locks and I also trap. I forgot the Sarcasm Smiley. Do you forgive me?

hah, ok then np

 

[Bigshadow]

Just because they are difficult and require a high degree of speed, precision, sensitivity, and power, doesnt mean they "do not work." I wouldnt recommend using them in a sparring match anyways because there is a good chance if you do the technique right you could break a wrist, finger, or do some serious damage to the tendons. In a real fight however, that doesnt matter, and you can act without reserve.

I should also point out that joint locks are much more likely to work if your art involves "sticking" or yeilding.

Even though Rich followed up on this, it is a great post! I agree! You make some great points. You are the first one I have seen mention "Sticking" outside of the art I train in.

 

[PeaceWarrior]

Even though Rich followed up on this, it is a great post! I agree! You make some great points. You are the first one I have seen mention "Sticking" outside of the art I train in.

Thank you

Yes, Wing Chun is really all about sticking, because we are a close range system we want to know where your hands are at all times (hence the importance of Chi Sau - which by the way is also used in JKD). To emphasize, trapping hands and joint locks really are much more readily applied when you stick (harmonize, blend) with your opponent.

Curious, what art do you train in Bigshadow?

Peace,

Keith

 

[Rich Parsons]

Thank you

Yes, Wing Chun is really all about sticking, because we are a close range system we want to know where your hands are at all times (hence the importance of Chi Sau - which by the way is also used in JKD). To emphasize, trapping hands and joint locks really are much more readily applied when you stick (harmonize, blend) with your opponent.

Curious, what art do you train in Bigshadow?

Peace,

Keith

Not Bigshadow, but I practice Modern Arnis and the principles you describe are good to make one sensitive and aware of of the possibilities.

 

[PeaceWarrior]

Not Bigshadow, but I practice Modern Arnis and the principles you describe are good to make one sensitive and aware of of the possibilities.

Thats cool Modern Arnis is one art I havent looked into at all, so I know nothing about it, but it sounds interesting. But yes, Chi Sau (or similiar drills like push hands) enables you to fine tune your sensitivity to such a degree that eventually you can read your opponents energy(intent, body language) by sticking to them before they attack, without needing to see what theyre doing to respond correctly. When you get high level in Wing Chun, chi sau is done blindfolded. I have a long way to go :uhyeah:

 

[Rich Parsons]

Thats cool Modern Arnis is one art I havent looked into at all, so I know nothing about it, but it sounds interesting. But yes, Chi Sau (or similiar drills like push hands) enables you to fine tune your sensitivity to such a degree that eventually you can read your opponents energy(intent, body language) by sticking to them before they attack, without needing to see what theyre doing to respond correctly. When you get high level in Wing Chun, chi sau is done blindfolded. I have a long way to go :uhyeah:

Start with your eyes closed and go real slow with someone you trust, and feel their movements. Feel how their body moves and listen to your hand and hte feedback they are giving you through it.

 

[Bigshadow]

Thank you

Yes, Wing Chun is really all about sticking, because we are a close range system we want to know where your hands are at all times (hence the importance of Chi Sau - which by the way is also used in JKD). To emphasize, trapping hands and joint locks really are much more readily applied when you stick (harmonize, blend) with your opponent.

Curious, what art do you train in Bigshadow?

Peace,

Keith

Sorry for the late posting... I train in Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu. By not being tense and sticking or maintaining multiple points of contact with them gives us alot of data without seeing what they are doing.

 

[Kwan Jang]

Until he explained the sarcasm, I was really suprised to hear someone who came up under Remy's system critical of joint locks, pressure points and trapping.