Training Outside of Class?

[spidersam]

Hi all, I just became a forum member after a few months of reading from the sidelines. Glad I joined.

I started practicing shaolin kung fu last year and recently hit that first, frustrating improvement plateau. Since I started, I attend class three days per week, and the other three days I practice what I've learned in class plus cardio--so about 2 hours training 6 days per week, including stretching. I feel like I haven't seen improvement lately and need to switch it up (ie, weights/different exercises). Just trying to break the plateau and continue getting better.

How do you train outside of class?

 

[Headhunter]

Well weights isn't going to help improve your skills. Do it if you want to but it won't make your technique any better. You want to get good technique then you have to practice your technique

 

[_Simon_]

G'day, welcome to the forums spidersam .

Ah wow, that's quite a schedule as it is... definitely break down your techniques and drills and do them at a pace that you can really get to understand the movements well. Training them in different drills, stances and movements can also help you understand how they work with your body.

It is also possible that you may be overdoing it which can lead to a plateau. Now I am aware of the intense frequent training many have done (and still do) to great effect, but that just isn't suited to everyone, and depends on many factors to work (temperament, willingness, personality, recovery rate, proper implemented recovery, nutrition, CNS/immune system etc).

I would actually suggest toning it down a bit and implementing more rest, may allow your body and mind the break it needs to be able focus better on your techniques when you do train? And more quality training..

Just a suggestion, you can take or leave as applicable

 

[spidersam]

G'day, welcome to the forums spidersam .

Ah wow, that's quite a schedule as it is... definitely break down your techniques and drills and do them at a pace that you can really get to understand the movements well. Training them in different drills, stances and movements can also help you understand how they work with your body.

It is also possible that you may be overdoing it which can lead to a plateau. Now I am aware of the intense frequent training many have done (and still do) to great effect, but that just isn't suited to everyone, and depends on many factors to work (temperament, willingness, personality, recovery rate, proper implemented recovery, nutrition, CNS/immune system etc).

I would actually suggest toning it down a bit and implementing more rest, may allow your body and mind the break it needs to be able focus better on your techniques when you do train? And more quality training..

Just a suggestion, you can take or leave as applicable

_Simon_ thank you, that is fair advice. Sometimes it is difficult to read if I've fully recovered or not. Frankly, I'd train 4 hours a day everyday instead of my day job if I could!

 

[skribs]

What is it that you feel you've plateaued on? Alternatively, what is it that you want to improve? For example, is it your rote technique, your speed or power, the scope of your understanding of the material, your ability to read your opponent?

Sometimes you don't feel improvement, but what you're doing is reinforcing the neural pathways on the correct technique.

But without knowing what your expectations and goals are, it's hard to give advice to reach those.

 

[marques]

In my mind, martial arts and fitness are different, complementary things. Fitness, usually, really improves at the beginning and then, after a while, it needs a better planning for visible results. (No quick guidelines.)

Martial arts training out of the class: I like to focus on what I think is more important, more challenging, try weird things or just train with different rules (my rules). Lately, I just do what I can...

 

[spidersam]

What is it that you feel you've plateaued on? Alternatively, what is it that you want to improve? For example, is it your rote technique, your speed or power, the scope of your understanding of the material, your ability to read your opponent?

Sometimes you don't feel improvement, but what you're doing is reinforcing the neural pathways on the correct technique.

But without knowing what your expectations and goals are, it's hard to give advice to reach those.

Thanks skribs. At this time I'm fairly content with my rate of understanding the material and learning the lessons through repetition. I noticed my forms haven't improved for two reasons, flexibility and strength. I stretch everyday (dynamic before and static after) and I find that repeatedly I get close to a split or my highest kick, and then I overstretch a muscle and have to "restart." This has happened quite a few times. My worry is if I don't stretch enough I won't see change but also see what over stretching does.

As for strength, I had presumed by repeating my forms I would build the strength to rise from, say, a pu bu stance. I feel like I plateaued there and am wondering if I need to vary the workout to improve strength so I'm not wobbly and fatigued. As for speed, I was thinking of doing more bag time to work on speed, but am afraid by moving focus to that other areas will weaken.

Of course I understand progress does not occur overnight. Perhaps I need more fitness and strength training, but fear it will take from technique. Just curious how other folks with more experience train and if I'm focusing on the "right" areas.

 

[jobo]

Well weights isn't going to help improve your skills. Do it if you want to but it won't make your technique any better. You want to get good technique then you have to practice your technique

Of course weights will help good skills development, the stronger your are the better your skills will be.And the longer they will stay good before fatigue sets in, I see the fitness doesNt matter lot are out in force

 

[jobo]

Thanks skribs. At this time I'm fairly content with my rate of understanding the material and learning the lessons through repetition. I noticed my forms haven't improved for two reasons, flexibility and strength. I stretch everyday (dynamic before and static after) and I find that repeatedly I get close to a split or my highest kick, and then I overstretch a muscle and have to "restart." This has happened quite a few times. My worry is if I don't stretch enough I won't see change but also see what over stretching does.

As for strength, I had presumed by repeating my forms I would build the strength to rise from, say, a pu bu stance. I feel like I plateaued there and am wondering if I need to vary the workout to improve strength so I'm not wobbly and fatigued. As for speed, I was thinking of doing more bag time to work on speed, but am afraid by moving focus to that other areas will weaken.

Of course I understand progress does not occur overnight. Perhaps I need more fitness and strength training, but fear it will take from technique. Just curious how other folks with more experience train and if I'm focusing on the "right" areas.

Yes you need to improve strength, do a similar movement loaded Regularly and then try it unloaded and it's easier now, fat muscles stretch further than thin muscles, build them up to improve flexibility

 

[Xue Sheng]

How do you train outside of class?

Train what you learned in class, over and over again, until it becomes habit... and you will get better

 

[JowGaWolf]

Hi all, I just became a forum member after a few months of reading from the sidelines. Glad I joined.

I started practicing shaolin kung fu last year and recently hit that first, frustrating improvement plateau. Since I started, I attend class three days per week, and the other three days I practice what I've learned in class plus cardio--so about 2 hours training 6 days per week, including stretching. I feel like I haven't seen improvement lately and need to switch it up (ie, weights/different exercises). Just trying to break the plateau and continue getting better.

How do you train outside of class?

What are you specifically trying to improve? Sometimes improvement comes with better understanding and not more work.

 

[Andrew Green]

Well weights isn't going to help improve your skills. Do it if you want to but it won't make your technique any better. You want to get good technique then you have to practice your technique

Weight training done properly, as in designed to work with the physical requirements of what you are doing will definitely improve your technique. Not only that it will help prevent injury, and being in better shape lets you train technique more.

Nearly every professional athlete on the planet will incorporate fitness training into what they do, and there is a reason. It improves their performance.

 

[spidersam]

What are you specifically trying to improve? Sometimes improvement comes with better understanding and not more work.

Thanks JowGaWolf. I posted a more detailed description of my goals as a reply a few posts earlier in the thread. To sum it up, my main concerns are flexibility and strength/fatigue. With stretching, I keep taking "two steps forward and one step back." I stretch daily but tend to pull muscles quickly and have to "restart." As for strength/fatigue, I feel like for as many times as I run forms over again, I have plateaued in muscle fatigue. I was thinking of working strength through other exercises, but am afraid this will pull from my time spent on technique.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Thanks skribs. At this time I'm fairly content with my rate of understanding the material and learning the lessons through repetition. I noticed my forms haven't improved for two reasons, flexibility and strength. I stretch everyday (dynamic before and static after) and I find that repeatedly I get close to a split or my highest kick, and then I overstretch a muscle and have to "restart." This has happened quite a few times. My worry is if I don't stretch enough I won't see change but also see what over stretching does.

As for strength, I had presumed by repeating my forms I would build the strength to rise from, say, a pu bu stance. I feel like I plateaued there and am wondering if I need to vary the workout to improve strength so I'm not wobbly and fatigued. As for speed, I was thinking of doing more bag time to work on speed, but am afraid by moving focus to that other areas will weaken.

Of course I understand progress does not occur overnight. Perhaps I need more fitness and strength training, but fear it will take from technique. Just curious how other folks with more experience train and if I'm focusing on the "right" areas.

Sounds like a lot of misconceptions on what makes martial arts works. What you have stated sounds more like a fitness concern than a Martial Arts one. For example, a split is not Martial Arts. It's just a split. So to improve on this you need to look up how to do splits.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Thanks JowGaWolf. I posted a more detailed description of my goals as a reply a few posts earlier in the thread. To sum it up, my main concerns are flexibility and strength/fatigue. With stretching, I keep taking "two steps forward and one step back." I stretch daily but tend to pull muscles quickly and have to "restart." As for strength/fatigue, I feel like for as many times as I run forms over again, I have plateaued in muscle fatigue. I was thinking of working strength through other exercises, but am afraid this will pull from my time spent on technique.

muscle fatigue can be caused from overuse. schedule your conditioning in a way that will allow your muscles to recover.

 

[spidersam]

Weight training done properly, as in designed to work with the physical requirements of what you are doing will definitely improve your technique. Not only that it will help prevent injury, and being in better shape lets you train technique more.

Nearly every professional athlete on the planet will incorporate fitness training into what they do, and there is a reason. It improves their performance.

Thanks Andrew Green for the pointers. It is good to see the comparison of martial arts to other sports and think of it that way

 

[spidersam]

muscle fatigue can be caused from overuse. schedule your conditioning in a way that will allow your muscles to recover.

JowGaWolf. Thanks that makes sense. This is specific but I'm just curious... do you or others on here kick every day, or do you give your legs a break from dynamic stretching a few days a week?

 

[JowGaWolf]

I think I read somewhere that the OP wanted to improve punching speed. Learn how to punch relaxed and with good timing. The better your timing is the faster your pinches will reach the target. Punching a bag fast isn't going to help. Think of it this way. boxers who punch speed bags do so with good timing.

 

[JowGaWolf]

JowGaWolf. Thanks that makes sense. This is specific but I'm just curious... do you or others on here kick every day, or do you give your legs a break from dynamic stretching a few days a week?

I give my legs a break by working on less demanding leg activities. I don't kick everyday and I don't do stances everyday. well more specifically I don't do low stances everyday. Some days are hard training days and other days are light days.

 

[jobo]

JowGaWolf. Thanks that makes sense. This is specific but I'm just curious... do you or others on here kick every day, or do you give your legs a break from dynamic stretching a few days a week?

Kicking is dynamic stretching, you don't really have to do both, other than as a warm up, set you bag up at a height that chalkenging, or stick some yellow tape on it at the height you want and kick it. Every thing needs rest, more Haist less speed