I’m fine with disagreement, too. I’m not fine with arguments that seem disingenuous. I may be misreading the situation, though. Text-based discussions pack All lot of the communication cues, of course.
And I’m cranky these days.
Training half of martial arts bugs me.
- Thread starter drop bear
- Start date
And I’m cranky these days.
dvcochran
Grandmaster
And I am the one post questionable stuff here.
It is astounding how totally clueless you are on some of this stuff.
And you never have explained what your idea of SD training/teaching is.
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This is precisely the argument I made previously. Doing throws and such in drills is a simulator. A resisting opponent/partner is actually flying. The small portion of training that is specific to SD is like a pilot learning how to handle emergencies and practicing the procedures in a safe manner (with no actual emergency).
So folks who train for SD actually can apply. Competition and other application opportunities (because competition is only one option for application) exist in their universe. And a few of them work in situations where they have to apply the emergency procedures more often. Those are analogous perhaps to fighter pilots.
You know, you complain about claims and mock when those claims aren’t made.
OP
OP
drop bear
Sr. Grandmaster
It is about accountability.
If you train SD, do you train neck choke from behind?
If you
- do, since neck choke is offense and not defense, you are not trainning SD.
- don't, you only train 1/2 MA.
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Steve
Mostly Harmless
Like I said earlier, this kind of post in which you do nothing but attack the poster is just not okay. Or maybe it is okay around here now. I’ve been away for a bit and there’s a new batch of moderators.
Steve
Mostly Harmless
the key you are glossing over is that Capt. Sullenberger is an actual pilot. A really, really good one.
Gerry, I’m not sure what you’re talking about. I’m not mocking anyone. As a trainer, i would love to be able to teach whatever I want with no claims to teaching anything usable. That is, however, Quintessentially faith based training. It’s a great gig if you can swing it, because you could literally teach whatever you want.
I don't train SD because all my training emphasizes on I attack first. I believe this violate the SD guideline.
_Simon_
Senior Master
Whoa...
That's a really unfortunate view to take on Gweilo... quite a generalisation. Of course some aspects of cultures have characteristics, but to say every American is therefore the same because of a trend you see, is missing quite alot. I've seen and been privileged to meet some of the most beautiful, thoughtful, compassionate Americans, and the degree of philanthropy in America is staggering. Perhaps the commercial and marketing aspects is one aspect of the culture, and isn't representative of the total?
My background is Croatian, and my aunty hates ALL Serbians due to, you know, the past. Because they're Serbian, they apparently all act a certain way and are evil. My dad had one single bad encounter with an indigenous man decades ago. He still hold them all with the same view. Just some thoughts, take it with a grain of salt if you like.
isshinryuronin
Senior Master
As an American, I think that, in the quoted post above in you opening comments, you have painted a somewhat truer picture of our culture by providing some context. Our country provides most everyone with the opportunity and freedom for upward mobility, even in the face of some lingering discrimination. Not perfect, but with hard and smart work and willingness for risk, much is possible here. We buy stuff because we can, even if nonsensical.
Your second set of comments, while again pretty much true, lacks context. In 1876, the USA was only a hundred years old. European countries were much older by centuries, well ordered and structured and well civilized. Our country still had wide tracts of wilderness and individuals had to fend for themselves. Except for in the big cities, almost everyone had a gun. We have a reputation as a self-reliant people with a bit of an ego problem. We also have a track record of winning, all of which contributes to our stereotypical swagger. As a whole, our population is not as disciplined as the Europeans - we were never as a nation ruled by kings or dictators. I'm not putting down any other country, I envy some parts of other cultures, not present in my own.
So, I'm not insulted. We are all a product of our history, good and/or bad.
Gweilo
Master Black Belt
Ok, obviously, the way I am writing it, seems to be coming ocross not exactly as intended to some, so one last go.
Firstly I like Americans, and have enjoyed visiting there.
Last time I was there, I met a bloke in Idaho, whos passion was wrestling, he used to work a regular job, and needed more money, mainly to fund his wrestling, equipment, travel, competition fees etc, so he started an online business, he made a nice profit, he then told others of his profits, and developed a online course for a fee, to teach others what he had done, he is now estimated to be worth over 60 million dollars, you can check him out if you wish, google Russell Brunson, there is another bloke called Anthony Robbins, made millions by telling people to get off their butts, take action, follow their dreams, and he has 100s of testimonials from people hes helped.
My point is, in America opportunities can be created, and vast profits made by those willing to take it, this creates confidence, and creativity, there is real opportunity, a former kick boxer can teach kick boxing, and kick boxing based fitness programs.
With this confidence and creativity, Americans are not scared to give it a go, if it looks good, and sounds good, whats to lose, a couple of thousand bucks and a bit of time, this mentality can leave the door open to bad purchases and scams (this is my British scepticle side). I have an aunty who lives in Boston, in her kitchen she have every gadget going, nutri bullet, kitchen ninja, which as far as I can tell do the same thing, 2 or 3 mixers, juicers, but, used them once or twice, then just left in the kitchen cupboard, when asked why, she had seen it on tv, and thought oh thats good, gotta grt me one of those.
I suppose I am steriotyping, but only by experience. As with the comments about Serbs and Croats, their reputationnis probably because of a history of troubles, but met a few Croats, and quite a few Serbs and others frombthe former Yougaslavia area, not met any bad ones, same as all the Russians I have met, anyhow off for my cup o tea, fish n chips, and collecting my bowler hat from the dry cleaners.
I was just qualifying the differences between sport BJJ and SD BJJ. If you want some sort of controllable organization that quantifies people's reliability, feel free to start it yourself.
I guess I fail to see how that's just an american thing. Online, anyone can start a business, and spread it anywhere. The same opportunities that Russell and Anthony created, literally anyone, from any part of the world, can do the same. America may be the best market for that, or it might not, I really don't know, but you don't have to limit yourself geographically when you're using a network that spans the globe.
Gweilo
Master Black Belt
Whilst I agree with anyone anywhere can acheive this, outside of the USA online business platforms are modelled on American business, where the foundations started in the late 90's, there are some business platforms here in the UK, are just realising they may have missed a trick with the online part of business, and trying to catch up. Here in the UK, the mentality is caution with a new business model, let others test it out first, then join the trend, where as in the US, the mentality is get into a trend at the beginning to maximise profit, the other obvious difference, whilst us British are confident, we will keep a lid on things, not tell others, be greedy in a way, by keeping it to ourselves, in the US the confidence is shout it from the roof tops, others take this as brash, cocky, bigheaded, when its look if I can do it confidnce as Isshin said, a winning mentality, which was my meaning of its in your culture, give it a go, looks good sounds good, and if it does not work, the mentality is "next".
OP
OP
drop bear
Sr. Grandmaster
Yeah. But it is not a difference if it doesn't do anything. It becomes irrelevant.
May as well say the difference is SD trains in camo pants.
If you want some sort of controllable organization that quantifies people's reliability, feel free to start it yourself.
It is called competition.
Otherwise you can't keep using this idea that there is no definable test of ability as some sort of defense of a systems worth. I mean it makes no sense.
So create the competition. Figure out a way to make conflict resolution into a competition. Or weapon training (also called the dog brothers, who have succesfully turned that part of grappling plus weapons into SD competition), or multiple attacker training into a competition. Once you create it, and offer some sort of cash for winning, I'm sure you'll find out who's best at it. Until then, don't complain that it doesn't exist just because no one's offering a reward for competing in that regard.
And incorporating conflict resolution, weapons, multiple attackers and situational awareness is far different than incorporating camo pants. I wouldn't expect you to get that though, considering your past posts here.
Oddly, the only online business that I've ever looked into the start of (since it relates directly into my career) is headspace. The reason that's odd is that it's an online business that started and grew from london. It later spread it's offices to california, but the founder is a londonite.
Where on earth do you get the notion that self-defense can’t include finishing and even preemptive techniques???
SD training tends to mostly (not exclusively) start from receiving an attack, and tends to spend time working from worst-case positions. Other than that, it’s just MA training, whether it’s good or bad.
And again, there are 6 (possibly more) different cultures in the USA. There's the Northeast, Southeast, Plains, Mississippi Valley, Pacific Northwest and Pacific Southwest. Those are the 6 I generally go by but others include more distinctions. I lump the great lakes and rocky mountains into the plains, but that might be because I haven't spent significant time in any of those to realize the differences. I'd also argue that the mid-east (Pennsylvania to North Carolina-ish) is different from either the southeast or northeast, but that might be because I've spent too much time along the coast.And if you spend any time in one then move to another you'll notice the differences. It's really easy when you live away from the US to lump it all as one culture, but really tough to do so when you spend any significant time here, and travel between them.
No, I’m not missing that. You’re missing that throwing people who don’t want to be thrown is flying the plane, not a simulator.
Your tone comes across as mocking in that post. You dislike the claims made by some in SD circles with seminars and short courses (and I largely agree on that point). But when someone doesn’t commit that sin, you mock that they haven’t said they are teaching skills.
Personally, I believe there’s value in folks learning that learning to fight takes time and commitment. Some movies (and some advertising) have made it seem otherwise, so it’s useful education. Just telling people doesn’t seem to work well - some experience with the process makes the learning curve clear.
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