Training half of martial arts bugs me.

[drop bear]

I do completely believe there is a Lot of power (healing and otherwise) in believing something is going to work. I have never heard of a healing crystal so cannot speak to them. Divining rods? In their day it was the best thing people had so that has to mean something. It was good enough for people to start exploiting. We can use science to prove most anything does not work if we so choose to. I think we can all make a list of things that are not "medically approved" that have medicinal purposes.

Also no.

 

[jobo]

I'm saying that it's easy to find evidence of things that exist. If you are the one person who could provide evidence of something, and just don't prioritize it, that sounds fishy to me. Buka brought up religion and the analogy is apropos. Because where evidence doesn't exist, one must have faith. Ergo, ninjutsu is a faith based art. Aikido is a faith based art.

Edit:. Just to be clear, whether faith is involved or not is outside of whether it exists. God may exist. There just happens to be no evidence. Only faith.

what evidence do you think people should have ?

much of our tech world is based entirely on faith, there may be evidence, but most people haven't seen it and wouldn't understand it if they did.

some authority figure tells them its so and they believe with out evidence, if you had to see evidence for every last thing before you believed it was so, then you would never do anything

most folk have very little idea and no evidence that latent heat exchange is a thing, but they all seems to use refrigerators with little problem, this very morning i got out of bed based entirely on faith that the floor wouldn't collapse under my feet, the only evidence i had is that it didn't collapse yesterday and so would probably wouldn't do today, someone who insisted on evidence before getting out of bed would quite possibly be deemed to have mental health issues

so what evidence should people have before they establish a belief that something is so ?

 

[drop bear]

what evidence do you think people should have ?

much of our tech world is based entirely on faith, there may be evidence, but most people haven't seen it and wouldn't understand it if they did.

some authority figure tells them its so and they believe with out evidence, if you had to see evidence for every last thing before you believed it was so, then you would never do anything

most folk have very little idea and no evidence that latent heat exchange is a thing, but they all seems to use refrigerators with little problem, this very morning i got out of bed based entirely on faith that the floor wouldn't collapse under my feet, the only evidence i had is that it didn't collapse yesterday and so would probably wouldn't do today, someone who insisted on evidence before getting out of bed would quite possibly be deemed to have mental health issues

so what evidence should people have before they establish a belief that something is so ?

How about something as simple as proving the fridge keep something cold?

And this is fundamentally the issue we are having.

You are all about having to know how a fridge works. Before you can decide if it does.

But you just put something in there come back an hour later and check on it.

 

[jobo]

How about something as simple as proving the fridge keep something cold?

And this is fundamentally the issue we are having.

You are all about having to know how a fridge works. Before you can decide if it does.

But you just put something in there come back an hour later and check on it.

but your fridge keeps something cold is no evidence that mine will/does ? and that it keeps things cold today is no evidence it will tomorrow

but this it '' works for me'' evidence is the very evidence your taking issue with

 

[drop bear]

but your fridge keeps something cold is no evidence that mine will/does ? and that it keeps things cold today is no evidence it will tomorrow

but this it '' works for me'' evidence is the very evidence your taking issue with

No. It isn't anecdotal or opinion. I could video my fridge. I could get an independent witness. I could even video my fridge keeping things cold for the next year. There are thousands of the same brand of fridge behaving I the same way for the same reason.

It is the opposite of "it works for me"

 

[jobo]

No. It isn't anecdotal or opinion. I could video my fridge. I could get an independent witness. I could even video my fridge keeping things cold for the next year. There are thousands of the same brand of fridge behaving I the same way for the same reason.

It is the opposite of "it works for me"

thats sound like an interesting challenge, go on prove ''your fridge works'' ?

 

[drop bear]

thats sound like an interesting challenge, go on prove ''your fridge works'' ?

It is required by law to work.
Warranty Information for Fisher & Paykel Appliances Australia

 

[jobo]

It is required by law to work.
Warranty Information for Fisher & Paykel Appliances Australia

so no evidence then, nothing zilch, ?

it was you that said it was easy to prove !

 

[Gerry Seymour]

so close....

Did you have a point? Or were you just defending drop bear?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

my point is that it shouldn't be entirely on you. If it is, that in itself is to telling. In other words, the idea that there is no evidence if you don't prioritize it yourself is exactly the point.

There are plenty of other videos out there about NGA and the other sources I've derived from. That post was entirely about me not having video of my teaching approach. Videos of other folks would patently NOT be evidence of my teaching approach, now would they?

 

[drop bear]

so no evidence then, nothing zilch, ?

it was you that said it was easy to prove !

Yeah. There is a legally binding guarantee that my fridge keeps things cold. How is that not evidence that my fridge keeps things cold?

If it doesn't keep things cold I get a new fridge. If that doesn't keep things cold I continue to get a new fridge untill it does keep things cold.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Yeah. There is a legally binding guarantee that my fridge keeps things cold. How is that not evidence that my fridge keeps things cold?

If it doesn't keep things cold I get a new fridge. If that doesn't keep things cold I continue to get a new fridge untill it does keep things cold.

So, if there were a legal requirement that martial arts were effective, that would be proof all MA work? A requirement isn't evidence - it's an attempt at legal protection.

 

[drop bear]

There are plenty of other videos out there about NGA and the other sources I've derived from. That post was entirely about me not having video of my teaching approach. Videos of other folks would patently NOT be evidence of my teaching approach, now would they?

They would be evidence that at least any teaching approach exists.

 

[drop bear]

So, if there were a legal requirement that martial arts were effective, that would be proof all MA work? A requirement isn't evidence - it's an attempt at legal protection.

A guarantee would guarantee martial arts works.

It is kind of in the description.

 

[jobo]

Yeah. There is a legally binding guarantee that my fridge keeps things cold. How is that not evidence that my fridge keeps things cold?

If it doesn't keep things cold I get a new fridge. If that doesn't keep things cold I continue to get a new fridge untill it does keep things cold.

coz it could have broke this morning and you've an outstanding warranty claim, but first you need to actually prove you own that fridge, in fact that you own any fridge

then you need to do as you promised, provided independent testimony and a video diary of it working for the next year

 

[drop bear]

coz it could have broke this morning and you've an outstanding warranty claim, but first you need to actually prove you own that fridge, in fact that you own any fridge

then you need to do as you promised, provided independent testimony and a video diary of it working for the next year

I only need to video it working now to show it hasn't broken this morning.

 

[jobo]

A guarantee would guarantee martial arts works.

It is kind of in the description.

they dont guarantee that a fridge will work, they guarantee they will replace it with another one if it doesn't, that must be obvious, appliances under warrantee break down all the time

 

[jobo]

I only need to video it working now to show it hasn't broken this morning.

no you need to provide the evidence that you said was easy to provided, you appear to be welching on your claim,

your big on insisting on very specific evidence from others, but no so hot if its you

 

[skribs]

If you are the one person who could provide evidence of something, and just don't prioritize it, that sounds fishy to me.

I'd rather someone not have evidence, than when you say "show me the proof" they go out and beat someone up.

 

[Steve]

Did you have a point? Or were you just defending drop bear?

yeah. I do. And you almost got there. Clearly, trying to discuss things isn't working. I figure I'll just try and adopt your tactics. Is that a problem?