Training Children with ADHD/ADD?
- Thread starter Ceicei
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When we had a couple students with it, I found one of the best things to do especially when they first started, was to keep them engaged as much as possible, i.e. not standing idly around waiting for a turn on something, by say making everyone in line do side kicks until their turn or something of the like. Also when working things that required a partner, I usually tried to partner them up with someone who was a focused or more serious student and wouldn't easily get sidetracked themself.
In my few experiences with it, I found it usually took a while, but after a year to 18 months there was usually a significant difference in the ability of the student to focus and it seemed like you didn't need to keep a closer an eye on them than any of the other students to make sure they were practicing and not horsing around.
In my few experiences with it, I found it usually took a while, but after a year to 18 months there was usually a significant difference in the ability of the student to focus and it seemed like you didn't need to keep a closer an eye on them than any of the other students to make sure they were practicing and not horsing around.
G
goshawk
Guest
::grin:: Resign yourself to future frustration? No, sorry. It's frustrating, but it can work. My experience isn't from teaching martial arts, but from cadets; I had a couple ADD cadets, one severely so, and it took me a long time to figure out how to make it work. Getting an ADD boy to stand still at attention and not move or look around for fifteen minutes is an exercise in hair-pulling exasperation, but not futility.
Best advice I can give is make sure the child is occupied or has something to keep his mind engaged in at all times. If there's going to be a period of inactivity, give him something to watch or think about that he'll have to tell you afterwards. Make sure it's a real task too, not just "count the mats in the room"; kids get really offended at make-work I found out (the hard way).
i.e. For standing at attention in cadets, I told him to watch what all the higher-ranking parade positions did and tell me what their procedures were afterwards, not only to keep him occupied but also so that he would know what to do when he became a senior cadet. He ended up knowing parade procedure better than some cadets two ranks above him.
When giving instructions, don't be surprised or upset if you have to call his attention back to you frequently. Make sure he's looking at you and tracking, otherwise he's not listening. If this becomes an obvious issue, and he consistently can't remember what he's supposed to be doing after instructions are given, make him repeat instructions back to you after you've given them. ADD requires a lot of supervision and exhaustive attention.
[disclaimer] I may be wrong on a few or all of these points, as my experience is limited to one or two ADD kids in a very structured environment with a lot of back-up infrastructure for me to fall back on. Obviously, not all of this will be possible in a martial arts setting, particularly in a group class. Nonetheless, I hope it helps somewhat.
Best advice I can give is make sure the child is occupied or has something to keep his mind engaged in at all times. If there's going to be a period of inactivity, give him something to watch or think about that he'll have to tell you afterwards. Make sure it's a real task too, not just "count the mats in the room"; kids get really offended at make-work I found out (the hard way).
i.e. For standing at attention in cadets, I told him to watch what all the higher-ranking parade positions did and tell me what their procedures were afterwards, not only to keep him occupied but also so that he would know what to do when he became a senior cadet. He ended up knowing parade procedure better than some cadets two ranks above him.
When giving instructions, don't be surprised or upset if you have to call his attention back to you frequently. Make sure he's looking at you and tracking, otherwise he's not listening. If this becomes an obvious issue, and he consistently can't remember what he's supposed to be doing after instructions are given, make him repeat instructions back to you after you've given them. ADD requires a lot of supervision and exhaustive attention.
[disclaimer] I may be wrong on a few or all of these points, as my experience is limited to one or two ADD kids in a very structured environment with a lot of back-up infrastructure for me to fall back on. Obviously, not all of this will be possible in a martial arts setting, particularly in a group class. Nonetheless, I hope it helps somewhat.
Good advice already give. Keep the kid(s) busy. Also, don't get frusterated, it just makes things worse for both of you guys.
I think it helps to be good with kids in the first place and NOT be a perfectionist. Don't let them get away with being sloppy, but realize that some of these kids just won't look as good as other students doing the stuff. So if you are doing a punching drill, if they are punching is looking more like "girly slaps", give them something to focus on to make it better, but move on. Taking a lot of time is just wasteful and you won't get too far generally. Just make sure that they are staying with the group and they will slowly improve. To you it will seem they are doing terrible. To the parents they will be so amazed and happy that their kid is actually staying on task with a group and listening to directions. It may not seem like much, but you are teaching these kids how to survive the fight that is the "real adult world".
I think it helps to be good with kids in the first place and NOT be a perfectionist. Don't let them get away with being sloppy, but realize that some of these kids just won't look as good as other students doing the stuff. So if you are doing a punching drill, if they are punching is looking more like "girly slaps", give them something to focus on to make it better, but move on. Taking a lot of time is just wasteful and you won't get too far generally. Just make sure that they are staying with the group and they will slowly improve. To you it will seem they are doing terrible. To the parents they will be so amazed and happy that their kid is actually staying on task with a group and listening to directions. It may not seem like much, but you are teaching these kids how to survive the fight that is the "real adult world".
I recently had someone suggest to me to use a key phrase, such as "back on track" and encouraging the student to say it too, and also to keep repeating the name of the exercise for the students to hear - that is, repeat it several times during the exercise as well. I haven't tried this technique yet with ADHD students, but have with my autistic son and that seems to help him (also attention deficient).
K
kenpochad
Guest
i have ADHD found out when i was in frist grade.
martial arts just always conacted with me and its something i can concentrat
on there are times when i just need to sit down and take a brake but i think
that happens to every one anywho it helped me out becouse it gave me something to focous all my energy inside of going out and getting in troubale
the best thing is keep them moveing and make it fun
martial arts just always conacted with me and its something i can concentrat
on there are times when i just need to sit down and take a brake but i think
that happens to every one anywho it helped me out becouse it gave me something to focous all my energy inside of going out and getting in troubale
the best thing is keep them moveing and make it fun
S
Satori
Guest
I think everyone hit the main points already. I personally have two students with ADHD, one with Turrets, and one with Cerebral Pallsy.
Teaching "handicapped" children is difficult and trying, but can be extremely fullfilling. With some of my more talented students, I show them a 24 move Kata twice, then they go home and practice it continually. By the next class, they can perform it proficiently.
With my some of my less fortunate students, I STILL have to continually drill the basics over and over and over. After three months of training, I still have to remind these students to keep their fists tight when they punch, to stand still in mesubu-dachi (sp), keep their guards up when they kick...basic stuff that they should know.
Just keep at it, continually take deep breaths to maintain your focus, and show them LOTS of compassion and leniency, as they typically don't respond to intense discipline.
Good luck!
May you achieve
Satori
Teaching "handicapped" children is difficult and trying, but can be extremely fullfilling. With some of my more talented students, I show them a 24 move Kata twice, then they go home and practice it continually. By the next class, they can perform it proficiently.
With my some of my less fortunate students, I STILL have to continually drill the basics over and over and over. After three months of training, I still have to remind these students to keep their fists tight when they punch, to stand still in mesubu-dachi (sp), keep their guards up when they kick...basic stuff that they should know.
Just keep at it, continually take deep breaths to maintain your focus, and show them LOTS of compassion and leniency, as they typically don't respond to intense discipline.
Good luck!
May you achieve
Satori
I agree with keeping them active. I've had kids like this in class, and it certianly was a challenge. In some cases, it was suggested to the parents to do private lessons rather than take the group class. This way, more 1 on 1 attention could be devoted to the child. Once they had the basic idea as to what they had to know, the group classes were then another option for them.
Mike
Mike
T
TonyM.
Guest
Just to be a pill. You know of cource that scientist disagree with doctors on the existance of ADHD/ADD.
K
kenpochad
Guest
i dont know about that i do know that i wouldnt put my children of redalynTonyM. said:
it posable that the kid that have ADHD/ADD just are not the same as
every one .
for me all i need was just a little more drection and help on focousing all the extra energy that i had and still have a lot of energy where its hard for me to sit
and do nothing
chinto01
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My suggestion is get the parents involved. Reason being is that the parrents are working with the doctor on some key phrases or actions to possibly correct the childs behavior. You may want to use some of these same phrases and actions so that the child does not become confused or frustrated.
In the spirit of Bushido!
Rob
In the spirit of Bushido!
Rob
The only advice that I will add is give them structure and be very supportive. They are having to deal with it all of the time, you only deal with it part of the time. The best thing I ever did with one of my ADDHD kids was give him support and compliments when he was doing things right. Worked wonders.
Kembudo-Kai Kempoka
Senior Master
Hokay. I HAVE ADHD as an adult; have had it since first diagnosis...at 4 years old. Teachers sent me to a shrink in Hawaii cuz' I wouldn't sit still: He called it ADD, put me on Ritalin. Over the years, through grade school, they eventually tried everything but the kitchen sink on me (med, dietary changers, behavior mod., etc.).
That being said, ADHD is a waaaay overused Dx, prompted by lazy & slow teachers who don't want to deal with the simple fact that kids are not designed to sit still for long periods of time. I deeply believe that MOST ADD is just kids being kids, so we medicate them into a manageable norm.
Now, to karate...
Training in Hawaii is what saved my ****. At the local Japanese Cultural Arts center, highly structured, militaristic training in aikijujutsu & kajukenbo provided structure. ADD minds can/do go to a lot of places at once, instead of only one or two places. Paying attention to weight distributions, hand and foot positioning, changes in tension, etc., gave me a thing to think on. In less militaristic atmospheres, though, no thrive.
Moved here in the early '70's, and started American Kenpo at the Garden Grove school with Bob Perry. Was a disruptive force in the kids class, but actually did alright in the adults classes (quicker pace -- more to hold the attention). Of course, he still couldn't stand having a hyperactive rugrat terrorizing his school, but it kept me busy and happy. There was at least one environment where my ADD did not prevent me from participating.
I can't say I'm any good at teaching ADHD kids. For kenpo, however, I would ask Bob White. He has what I consider to be the best kids classes available. He and his instructors have great patience, and maintain a positive atmosphere. For a kid with ADHD, this may be the only place where positive reinforcement or nurturing input may be found. Schools don't know what to do with them; families are often stressed to their limits by them. And if the only message a kid gets is that they're a problem, they will be.
Good Luck,
Dave
That being said, ADHD is a waaaay overused Dx, prompted by lazy & slow teachers who don't want to deal with the simple fact that kids are not designed to sit still for long periods of time. I deeply believe that MOST ADD is just kids being kids, so we medicate them into a manageable norm.
Now, to karate...
Training in Hawaii is what saved my ****. At the local Japanese Cultural Arts center, highly structured, militaristic training in aikijujutsu & kajukenbo provided structure. ADD minds can/do go to a lot of places at once, instead of only one or two places. Paying attention to weight distributions, hand and foot positioning, changes in tension, etc., gave me a thing to think on. In less militaristic atmospheres, though, no thrive.
Moved here in the early '70's, and started American Kenpo at the Garden Grove school with Bob Perry. Was a disruptive force in the kids class, but actually did alright in the adults classes (quicker pace -- more to hold the attention). Of course, he still couldn't stand having a hyperactive rugrat terrorizing his school, but it kept me busy and happy. There was at least one environment where my ADD did not prevent me from participating.
I can't say I'm any good at teaching ADHD kids. For kenpo, however, I would ask Bob White. He has what I consider to be the best kids classes available. He and his instructors have great patience, and maintain a positive atmosphere. For a kid with ADHD, this may be the only place where positive reinforcement or nurturing input may be found. Schools don't know what to do with them; families are often stressed to their limits by them. And if the only message a kid gets is that they're a problem, they will be.
Good Luck,
Dave
K
kenpochad
Guest
amen to that brotherKembudo-Kai Kempoka said:
i went threw the same i was on i was on ritalin from the time i was 6 to i was 13
now at 28 i try and dill with it its hard for me to focous sometimes but i am working on it every day
Han-Mi
Purple Belt
I've had two students with ADD/ADHD and one was really twitchy and couldn't stand still and the other one would fall into line as soon as you called the command. The latter just did well with strict simple commands, and is now a red belt wih a lot of promise. The other gained rank of green advanced before dropping out, but he did best when you took the time to give him some personal attention. Making sure I said his name every once in a while so that he knew I was keeping an eye one him so that he would do what he is supposed to, and kept him from getting off course.
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I'd have to agree with the others. It's not an easy thing, and takes a good bit of patience on both the student's and the teacher's part. This is true, regardless of whether this is in a Karate dojo, or an elementary / junior high school classroom.
Each such child is different, and requires a bit of tweaking from the sensei. It's up to the sensei to figure out what works, and what doesn't for each such child. Some kids only need a bit of prodding, others need constant reinforcement.
Now, if I may take a moment to put on the black hat for a bit, I'll say this:
Yes, such kids do require more attention, and by all means, if you can get them to learn by giving them that much more attention, then more power to you and the children. However, there also comes a point in time, where you can't afford to give them any more attention, as you still have the rest of your class to teach.
I'm sure that everyone who is, or has been, an instructor in the martial arts, has heard of the magical distribution numbers. 20% of your students will be gifted, and will "get it" no matter how bad the instruction may be. 20% of your students will never "get it" no matter how good your instruction may be. The remaining 60% can "get it" with the right amount of help, and is what most of your energies should be focused on, otherwise your class size and school will start diminishing. Sometimes you need to be a bit pragmatic, and realize that some children are in the lower 20% category. They can still be helped, but sometimes it may be better for someone else (outside of the dojo) to help them. For the most part, we (the instructors) are not pediatricians or child psychologists.
I am not saying that such children shouldn't train in the martial arts; if anything, seeing such kids grow and mature (and outgrow their problems) under your tutelage is worth something that all of the gold in Fort Knox couldn't buy. However, a dojo must survive, and sometimes tough decisions must be made.
Each such child is different, and requires a bit of tweaking from the sensei. It's up to the sensei to figure out what works, and what doesn't for each such child. Some kids only need a bit of prodding, others need constant reinforcement.
Now, if I may take a moment to put on the black hat for a bit, I'll say this:
Yes, such kids do require more attention, and by all means, if you can get them to learn by giving them that much more attention, then more power to you and the children. However, there also comes a point in time, where you can't afford to give them any more attention, as you still have the rest of your class to teach.
I'm sure that everyone who is, or has been, an instructor in the martial arts, has heard of the magical distribution numbers. 20% of your students will be gifted, and will "get it" no matter how bad the instruction may be. 20% of your students will never "get it" no matter how good your instruction may be. The remaining 60% can "get it" with the right amount of help, and is what most of your energies should be focused on, otherwise your class size and school will start diminishing. Sometimes you need to be a bit pragmatic, and realize that some children are in the lower 20% category. They can still be helped, but sometimes it may be better for someone else (outside of the dojo) to help them. For the most part, we (the instructors) are not pediatricians or child psychologists.
I am not saying that such children shouldn't train in the martial arts; if anything, seeing such kids grow and mature (and outgrow their problems) under your tutelage is worth something that all of the gold in Fort Knox couldn't buy. However, a dojo must survive, and sometimes tough decisions must be made.
- Thread Starter
- #18
Hardheadjarhead had a great solution that worked in my situation. Some time ago, he wrote an article for a magazine and sent me a copy. Although his article dealt mostly with autism, there were many nuggets of goodies in it that were applicable to ADD/ADHD.
In that article, he suggested mentoring one-on-one, alongside the others.
I read all your posts in this thread and these posts gave me several ideas. Much of the suggestions can work also with life outside the dojo.
Well, in the beginning, the student came into class and literally ran around, going up to other kids, being very disruptive. There were two of us teaching the same class. I took her with me and made sure to keep her physically doing something constantly. She is very intelligent. I explained and showed exactly what to do. I got down to my knees so that I could maintain eye contact. When we finished one activity, we moved on immediately to the next. Some of the time, she is able to be with the others, the rest of the time one-on-one with me. Keeping her physically moving enabled her to mentally pay attention and learn. She really liked balancing on the ball, so it was her reward that day after the activities to do it again.
I actually enjoyed being with her and I think she had a good time too (she left happy). The other kids did well also. The main teacher appreciated me being there so the rest of the class could be taught. We both accomplished a lot with our students.
It wore me out though. It took much pre-planning and a willingness to quickly switch to related different activities.
Thanks to all of you for your feedback.
- Ceicei
In that article, he suggested mentoring one-on-one, alongside the others.
I read all your posts in this thread and these posts gave me several ideas. Much of the suggestions can work also with life outside the dojo.
Well, in the beginning, the student came into class and literally ran around, going up to other kids, being very disruptive. There were two of us teaching the same class. I took her with me and made sure to keep her physically doing something constantly. She is very intelligent. I explained and showed exactly what to do. I got down to my knees so that I could maintain eye contact. When we finished one activity, we moved on immediately to the next. Some of the time, she is able to be with the others, the rest of the time one-on-one with me. Keeping her physically moving enabled her to mentally pay attention and learn. She really liked balancing on the ball, so it was her reward that day after the activities to do it again.
I actually enjoyed being with her and I think she had a good time too (she left happy). The other kids did well also. The main teacher appreciated me being there so the rest of the class could be taught. We both accomplished a lot with our students.
It wore me out though. It took much pre-planning and a willingness to quickly switch to related different activities.
Thanks to all of you for your feedback.
- Ceicei
Phoenix44
Master of Arts
The biggest issue we have with kids with attention problems is that they tend to interrupt or disrupt the rest of the class, making it very frustrating to the other kids. Plus, it's hard for the instructor who has to stop teaching every few minutes to bring Johnny back into focus. When parents stop bringing their kid to that class because Johnny makes it hard for their kid to learn, you have a problem.
We've tried having more advanced or teen students assist, with one student assigned to keep an eye on Johnny. If you have a "leadership club" this is one thing they can do. We ask the parent of the child to remain in the reception area of the dojo. (We had on kid run out of the school into the parking lot after his parents dropped him off) This is helpful if a kid has to be removed from the floor for a few minutes for behavior problem.
As for "testing," well, we are always cognizant of the fact that this particular child may have to work a lot harder to learn a technique or kata.
It's a real issue, because so many parents turn to the martial arts so their child can "learn discipline."
We've tried having more advanced or teen students assist, with one student assigned to keep an eye on Johnny. If you have a "leadership club" this is one thing they can do. We ask the parent of the child to remain in the reception area of the dojo. (We had on kid run out of the school into the parking lot after his parents dropped him off) This is helpful if a kid has to be removed from the floor for a few minutes for behavior problem.
As for "testing," well, we are always cognizant of the fact that this particular child may have to work a lot harder to learn a technique or kata.
It's a real issue, because so many parents turn to the martial arts so their child can "learn discipline."
still learning
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Hello, Great advice guys! We too have kids with these problems. Patience is a must.
Because they are in this martial art enviroment it does teach them new things in their lives. Most of them in time, will start to learn about disclipine, respect and team work. It does create a new challenge for them and you can see the difference as time goes by(in a few months or more). This is good for them because at home and school there learning is different.
Most parents are happy to have them in our class and they can see the difference at home too! .............Aloha
Because they are in this martial art enviroment it does teach them new things in their lives. Most of them in time, will start to learn about disclipine, respect and team work. It does create a new challenge for them and you can see the difference as time goes by(in a few months or more). This is good for them because at home and school there learning is different.
Most parents are happy to have them in our class and they can see the difference at home too! .............Aloha
