Train MA for self-cultivation

Bill Mattocks

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This is normal. Everything depends on one's focus. I understand what you were saying, we may not see it as the same thing, and that's fine too. The one thing Martial Arts teachers has always stated. "Make the system your own." that way it will serve your needs and will be useful to you.
You might be surprised by the martial artists who believe that martial arts training serves one purpose only. They claim they 'do not understand' any other explanation, and demand to be presented with more information, which they then reject utterly. It gets a little old.
 

Dirty Dog

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You might be surprised by the martial artists who believe that martial arts training serves one purpose only. They claim they 'do not understand' any other explanation, and demand to be presented with more information, which they then reject utterly. It gets a little old.
Imagine being so stuck on yourself that you think your reasons for doing something are the only valid reasons. Ludicrous, yes?
 

Urban Trekker

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I presume this is a jab at me. Very well.
No, it's a jab at me. What's funny is that when I brought up the college education in math scenario, all I get is a reaction. Why? Because he knows fully well that he would judge a math major in that situation, which then justifies what I'm saying here.
 

Dirty Dog

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No, it's a jab at me. What's funny is that when I brought up the college education in math scenario, all I get is a reaction. Why? Because he knows fully well that he would judge a math major in that situation, which then justifies what I'm saying here.
Well, no. I wouldn't care why someone wanted to study math, either. They can do whatever they want, for whatever reasons they want.
I disagreed and moved on, because it's not worth going back and forth forever.
It's sadly amusing that you not only think your reasons for doing things are the only ones acceptable, but also that you know why people do things without even being told. I suppose the two sorts of arrogance do kind of belong together.
 

Urban Trekker

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Well, no. I wouldn't care why someone wanted to study math, either. They can do whatever they want, for whatever reasons they want.
I disagreed and moved on, because it's not worth going back and forth forever.
It's sadly amusing that you not only think your reasons for doing things are the only ones acceptable, but also that you know why people do things without even being told. I suppose the two sorts of arrogance do kind of belong together.
I call it pointing out the things you won't admit to.
 

Dirty Dog

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I call it pointing out the things you won't admit to.
Of course you think you know me better than I know myself.

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Steve

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The type of training may have a large effect on the outcome... and perhaps illustrates my biggest peeve with the 'Affliction/Tapout' MMA mindset (only a portion of the population, I know).

My opinion is this is the TMA's strength. Besides learning the patience to pursue a years long goal of always trying to be a little better at 'x' and keeping the mind and body sharp (calisthenics and memorization) I believe (from my over 20 years in the tradition and modern martial arts) that training to hit and choke has made me a kinder person. Learning violence has given me a greater respect for what happens when it occurs.

I'm obviously not the toughest guy in the world; but I know my experiance and abilities are far beyond the average person on the street. As a result, I'll do almost anything possible to avoid having to engage in violence. I've seen to much of what can go wrong (to either side). Having the ability to hurt puts a greater responsibility on us for how we use that ability.

We should all take a page from that line in the 2nd Avengers movie where a guy is described something to the effect of 'always running from the fight, because he knows he'll win'.
Well, the guy running from the fight is the hulk.

Couple of quick things here, though. Learning any sport, including MMA, takes a long time and requires patience. The idea of patience is a value that we hear associated with TMAs often, but actual patience and commitment to the craft is intrinsic to learning any sport, including MMA, BJJ, Judo, etc.

Another consideration is that some folks come into MMA and other combat sports (e.g., boxing), as a constructive outlet to move away from destructive violence. I don't think this is unique to sports or absent from TMA generally. But respect for violence, and a desire to avoid it whenever possible is well represented in both. And exceptions can always be found, as well.
 

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If self-defense is your main concern, then purchase a firearm, get your conceal carry permit, and call it a day. You can get all of this for the price of three months of martial arts training or less.

I think I may have said this before on MT, but if self-defense is your motive for martial arts training; you're soon going to realize that you're spending time in the dojo away from friends and family several times a week, all to reduce the likelihood of losing a fist fight. That's not worth it, if you don't enjoy your time at the dojo. If you don't, you're better off spending that time with family and friends, and just taking a loss on the streets. Or just carry a firearm. Going to the range once every other week is enough.
I don't think a gun helps most people. Home defense, maybe. But I've not seen any actual evidence that the good guy with a gun rhetoric is more than marketing for the gun companies.

Agree completely about the MA training, though.
 

Steve

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This is like pursuing college and graduate degrees in mathematics solely because you might presented with a complicated math problem someday.
But man, if you get that math problem, you would be such a stud! I taught myself to juggle in high school, and at the time I did it because I was interested. But I actually imagined someday, someone saying, "Hey can you juggle?" and being able to say, 'As a matter of fact."

Never happened, though. Bummer. :D
 

Urban Trekker

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I don't think a gun helps most people. Home defense, maybe. But I've not seen any actual evidence that the good guy with a gun rhetoric is more than marketing for the gun companies.

Agree completely about the MA training, though.
The "good guy with a gun" narrative is mostly about someone coming to the rescue in the case of armed person causing a public disturbance. For example, a mass shooting.

I'm merely talking about self-defense.
 

Steve

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I thought MA training is as simple as

- fist meet face, and
- head meet earth.

When someone says, "I train MA for self-cultivation", What does he mean?

I have Googled and get this, "Self-cultivation or personal cultivation is the development of one's mind or capacities through one's own efforts."

I understand each and every word, but I have no idea what the whole sentence is talking about (my IQ score is 145).

Your thought?

View attachment 26892
View attachment 26893
I personally think there are all kinds of great reasons to learn new things. Martial arts is no different from any other healthy hobby. Whether it's learning to play an instrument, cook, bake, play golf, or anything else, if you apply yourself to learning to do something new, and you try your best over a sustained period of time, you will be better for it. But it has to be a real thing with tangible results. If you're learning fight, you should learn to fight. If you're learning to do kata, do great kata. If you're learning to play the melodica, make music.

Where some MAs fall short, IMO, is they create a convenient fiction where people don't know what they're actually learning. This causes all kinds of problems for people.
 

Steve

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The "good guy with a gun" narrative is mostly about someone coming to the rescue in the case of armed person causing a public disturbance. For example, a mass shooting.

I'm merely talking about self-defense.
Not trying to argue with you. I'll try to be more clear, I think there's a lot of fantasy inherent in the feeling of safety some folks have when they carry a gun. This idea that, in a pinch, they're going to pull it out of their ankle holster or the cargo pocket of their shorts, or wherever they've got it stashed, and shoot some bad guys like Clint Eastwood in Gran Turino just doesn't play out.

At least, I haven't seen any real evidence that it does. I'm open to seeing real data, though.
 

Urban Trekker

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Not trying to argue with you. I'll try to be more clear, I think there's a lot of fantasy inherent in the feeling of safety some folks have when they carry a gun. This idea that, in a pinch, they're going to pull it out of their ankle holster or the cargo pocket of their shorts, or wherever they've got it stashed, and shoot some bad guys like Clint Eastwood in Gran Turino just doesn't play out.

At least, I haven't seen any real evidence that it does. I'm open to seeing real data, though.
I don't know if they keep stats on this. There are plenty of anecdotal examples out there, FWIW.

One example off that dome I can think of, a few years back in my area, a pizza deliveryman pulled out his gun and shot a guy trying to mug him.

I've heard a few stories (not sure if local) where Uber drivers had to do the same.

Ultimately, these people got fired, but that's a cheap price to pay in order to live.

Is it on the level of stopping a bank robbery? Of course not, and that's not what I'm telling people to do.
 

Steve

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I don't know if they keep stats on this. There are plenty of anecdotal examples out there, FWIW.

One example off that dome I can think of, a few years back in my area, a pizza deliveryman pulled out his gun and shot a guy trying to mug him.

I've heard a few stories (not sure if local) where Uber drivers had to do the same.

Ultimately, these people got fired, but that's a cheap price to pay in order to live.

Is it on the level of stopping a bank robbery? Of course not, and that's not what I'm telling people to do.
Yeah, I don't know about stats. I am 100% in favor of context specific self defense, and I think it looks different for different people. Self defense for a coed on a college campus is very different than from a software developer at Microsoft (I didn't add the link to this... FYI).
 
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