"Traditional Taekwondo"

[BaktoBasics]

Hi. I have my BB in TKD but my training was mainly competition. I have however undertaken various arts that are far superior so far as self defence goes: boxing, muay thai and wing chun.

HOWEVER, I have recently encountered the term "traditional" TKD in a very reputable TKD school and I am VERY curious. It seems like a great school and it is very open minded in relation to techniques from other styles.

Having said that, given that TKD nowadays is mainly competition based, can anyone further elaborate about "traditional" TKD? Was it used by Koreans in actual combat? Was it around before TKD was officially developed in the 1950's?

I hear Korean martial arts have existed for thousands of years. And, TKD is simply a synergy of those fighting forms - however, competition has changed it. So, as I have said in the past, the rules of competition restrict real life self defence practices. Nevertheless, is there actually "traditional" TKD - is it effective? Does anyone do it?

The Koreans, using fighting arts for "2000" years (off a TKD website) ust have come up with something effective? right or wrong?

Appreciate any comments.
Thanks.

 

[BaktoBasics]

Sorry, I forgot to add. A friend said that the Korean military does TKD. However, it is very different to what is taught in most schools, it is very effective and the fancy competition based teaching does not nearly compare so far as self defence goes - can ayone confirm or deny this?

If this is true, I think schools should clearly state that they teach "competition" OR "traditional" TKD, or, both. TKD has gained a bad name in martial arts circles (most martial artists grin and smirk when I say I have a BB in TKD). I think its time we find a distiction between competition and traditional TKD.

 

[Adept]

If the korean military is taught TKD, I'm willing to bet it's just for PT.

My advice to you is to go along for a few weeks, check it out, and see what you think. You're obviously far enough along in your own training that you know what you are looking for, and you'll either find it or not.

 

[still learning]

Hello, Have you notice most Taekwondo schools forcus in lots of competitions events? For most of them it is a business to earn money teaching you something. Competitions gives students an excitement in the arts.

The term "traditional" can and will be use for marketing purpose. Only by going to the school and watching what they do and teach will you be able to check for yourself.

My nephew got a 1st degree black in two years from a taekwondo school, he is now 7 years old.

Your training in varies fighting arts has given you a new insights of knowledge of what works and may not be good for real,street fighing.

Even in boxing and other arts the term "traditonal" is use.

What is "traiditional" may be different in everyone minds........,.Aloha

 

[jkdhit]

traditional tkd is very different. my current school teaches the traditional method which is taught by the korean military. every citizen is korea is supposed to register for the army and serve, i believe 2 years or 3 years, i forget.

my instructors teach the traditional method which is comprised mainly over building flexibility, endurance, and strength. i noticed that for every 50 minute class, about 25-30 minutes is based on stretching, improving flexibility, strength, and endurance. after all of that, we get to some of the most common techniques and a new technique is usually added every class.


most schools teach for competition nowadays mainly to gain some reputation and win those trophies to gather more students. also some prefer to teach this way because of several reasons such as out of shape or injured people fearing not being able to keep up, people upset about not being promoted, and mainy techniques taught in the traditional method are dangerous or can cause serious injury.

i noticed at my old schools and the school my brother currently attends, they never teach joint locks (except one very simple wrist lock at my brothers school) or leg sweeps.

however at my current which teaches the traditional method, a variety of leg sweeps and joint locks are taught

 

[Han-Mi]

Not all tkd schools are excessivly focussed on competitions. And the Korean army does train in TKD as a fighting form as well as for PT, My instructor's instructor, Master Crawfort, accidently walked in on them once while he was on base in southern Korea while he was in the army. He saw only a moment before he was shewed out. He explained it as being very brutal. There were 2 groups, one was doing reps of kicks, one was full contact fighting without pads. His instructor (GrandMaster Ahn Chong Ho) told him he could have gotten in trouble for having been there as it is suposed to be pretty internal. That was a couple decades ago. But before that Grand Master Ahn tought TKD for the ROK army. So i do know they trained in it, though I couldn't say how they train currently. This was all decades ago.

 

[hardheadjarhead]

If the korean military is taught TKD, I'm willing to bet it's just for PT.

The Korean Marines I met seemed to take it pretty seriously. Training was compulsory, and a black belt was required before making sergeant. Officers and staff NCO's had to have dan rankings in two arts.

As far as "traditional," how does one define the word? One could come up with several definitions:

--An art that is practiced as it was, essentially, years before with little change or modification from the spirit of the art

--An art that practices certain traditions of respect, courtesy, etc.

--An art that combines both of the above.

--The art that is considered the most popular and widely practiced, and assumes the mantle of "traditional" even though it has evolved over time into something that vaguely resembles what it was decades before.

Pick one. Or add one or two I might have missed.

When it gets down to it, you might have two schools claiming they're "traditional" while pointing at each other and screaming "heresy!"


Regards,


Steve

 

[Gemini]

We practice both "traditional" and competition. Traditional is a word commonly used for "Self defense" which encompasses a great deal more than competition does. I personally love sparring, but we treat SD and sparring as two completely different entities. Simply because they are.

Besides what you learn in competition class, a school that teaches TKD as self defense will generally teach low kicking/sweeps, take downs, joint manipulation, punching, blocking and a more in-depth history (as they know it) of the art.

Is it effective? Depends on you. I know many TKD practitioners that you might want to think twice about walking up and insulting their art. I know others that IMO couldn't get out of their own way. Hmm. Sorta like every other art.

Regards,

 

[searcher]

Typically "traditional TKD" refers to General Choi's groups: ITF, ITA, Oh Do Kwan, etc. The sport schools are WTF most of the time. If you go and train with TKD people who train for self-defense you will get an eye-opening experience. It is very different from the mainstreem sport oriented schools.

To say that the ROK Army only uses TKD training for PT is not an accurate statement. TKD can be very effective in a combat situation if you train for it, just as most systems can be. It doe sdepend on the student and what the focus is.

 

[pnoy_kickfighter]

Hi. I have my BB in TKD but my training was mainly competition. I have however undertaken various arts that are far superior so far as self defence goes: boxing, muay thai and wing chun.

HOWEVER, I have recently encountered the term "traditional" TKD in a very reputable TKD school and I am VERY curious. It seems like a great school and it is very open minded in relation to techniques from other styles.

Having said that, given that TKD nowadays is mainly competition based, can anyone further elaborate about "traditional" TKD? Was it used by Koreans in actual combat? Was it around before TKD was officially developed in the 1950's?

I hear Korean martial arts have existed for thousands of years. And, TKD is simply a synergy of those fighting forms - however, competition has changed it. So, as I have said in the past, the rules of competition restrict real life self defence practices. Nevertheless, is there actually "traditional" TKD - is it effective? Does anyone do it?

The Koreans, using fighting arts for "2000" years (off a TKD website) ust have come up with something effective? right or wrong?

Appreciate any comments.
Thanks.

I think you should just watch the school for a few days and see for yourself. TKD has been around for 2000 years and have been used in the past to fend of enemy invaders in Korea, so I would say it is pretty effective if the school is really practicing the traditional arts. TKD gets a bad reputaion these days because most of the students practice sport type TKD and when is in a street fight gets pummeled. I've been going to a TKD school for the past 6 months and decided to look for a traditional style because after lots of reasearch found out that it is a sport type and wont help me in a street fight.

 

[searcher]

I think you should just watch the school for a few days and see for yourself. TKD has been around for 2000 years and have been used in the past to fend of enemy invaders in Korea, so I would say it is pretty effective if the school is really practicing the traditional arts.

Not to make waves or anything, but TKD is not 2000 years old. It is actually less than 100 years old. You might be referring to Tae Kyon, which was added to Shotokan Karate by General Choi to create TKD.

 

[bignick]

Actually, to cut it even shorter, the name Tae Kwon Do hasn't even been around for 50 years yet, I believe.

 

[jkdhit]

gemini, i dont think traditional means only self defense everything was started not only for defense but also offense, cant forget that it is the art of kicking, blocking, and punching

 

[Gemini]

gemini, i dont think traditional means only self defense everything was started not only for defense but also offense, cant forget that it is the art of kicking, blocking, and punching

I understand, but every Korean Master I've ever met refers to it as a SD art. I'm told that's the mindset of their teachng in both their military and their schools.

Most arts are referred to as SD even though any one of them, including TKD could certainly be used in an aggresive manner.

 

[Brad Dunne]

Long story short = TKD originated in the 1950's from the inputs from Shotokan, Judo, Hapkido/Jujitsu along with a smattering of Chinese arts. Traditional TKD, in the easy to understand form was/is hard core self defense practice. Hard strikes - hand, foot, knees, elbows, plus joint locks/breaks, sweeps, takedowns, throws and chokes. The kicks were never above waist high, except as a finishing technique and they were very limited (i.e. Axe kick to back of neck when attacker was bent over from a previous technique).

It is a shame that it has come to the position that it now enjoys, a sad watered down shell of what it once was. There are hopefully some older practicioners out there that still teach the real deal.

 

[JanneM]

Dear Brad:

Where do you get your facts from?
Judo, Jujitsu or hapkido never had any input of taekwondo in tecnical asset. Judo was an influense to taekwondo only because Jidokwan was an old yudo (judo) club. The influense yudo gave to taekwondo was in fact the competition side and hard sports based training.

Strongest influenses to taekwondo was given by Itosu line shorin ryu (by Funakoshi etc...). Only very litle influenses where gotten from any other martial art but karate.

When taekwondo was built it was made as asport from the begining. Yes a martial art too but also as a sport. Sport side of taekwondo has always been very important to its development (in WTF and in ITF too). High kicks was also big part of taekwondo from the very begining. Taekwondo never had any or very litle input on ground fighting and grapling. TKD SD is more like block+hit or slide away and kick to the head/stomach/leg.

It is true that taekwondo is used by military and police in Korea but it is mainly for physical training. They also practise hand to hand combat but they mix it up. It is not only taekwondo tecnics but hapkido, yudo and other arts too. Mainly their H2H is tactical advanced to close combat.

Taekwondo is essential part of korean culture. It is practissed by kids as their after school program, it is practissed by teens as a sport, it is practissed in universitys and in professional teams and in Korea they all do it mainly for sport. You can also have a university degree in taekwondo. You go to military and you practise taekwondo (poomses and fighting mainly), you usually receave at least 1.dan before you get out from military. You have to have at least 1.dan if you want to aply to police forces.

The art has grat input in Korea but anyway in all the plases an all the cases the practise is mainly spots.

I don't see this as a bad thing. I see this is the way our beloved martial art is to be practised. If I want to practise joint locks and takedowns I go to my Hapkido (hapkiyusul) class or if I want to practise sword art I'll go to my Haidong Gumdo class. But if I want want to practise kicking and punching and have a hell of a good time doing it and maby attend my self in sparring session I'll go to my taekwondo class.

 

[artist89]

At my dads school we focus on the techniques at first then develope speed after words as you get higher in ranks. Also we focus on the forms or poomse in korean. But I have to agree Tae Kwon do is slowly loosing tradition here in the US and becoming more of "lets see how much money I can make" Few school instructors teach because the love tae kwon do and most (but not all) open a school trying to get "rich quick" and don't put their heart and soul into their teachings....

 

[CuongNhuka]

o.k. i'm probly going to tick off every taekwondoka here, but sae la vie (french for that's life).taekwondo was orginally made by general choi of the south korean army as the disarmed form of combat (a heavly modified version is taught for much the same reason to the armys of most countrys including the u.s.). General Choi was acctuly born in the north, but fled to the south, being himself democratic. when japan took over korea in WWII the japanese goverment out lawed native martial arts, driving most of them to the break of extensoin, and completly destroying tae kwon according to legend. as a way to 'japanese' the koreans, the japanese goverment forced many people to learn japanese martial arts, namely Shotokan Karate-do. when the japanese were forced to leave korea they the karate they had forced the koreans to learn. then when korea split into north and south the southern general used Shotokan as a basis for a knew style. and to give it lagitimicy to his country men he saide it was derived from tae kwon, which he saide the japanese had destroyed. this was not true, in fact tae kwon is still in fact taught, but very few taekwondoka would ever knew. why? since tea kwon is really only taught in north korea. taekwondo became a very well know stlyeand many people began to slack off on their training and taught what they often refered to as "inproved taekwondo". know then what is really traditional teakwondo? well, outside south korea (since it is a crime in at least south korea to teach taekwondo in the north), nothing really. in south korea, taekwondo. they don't really have the so called improved, or combat style. so why do i say that alot people will get ticked off for saying this? well for any none taekwondoka, most taekwondoka get ticked off if you argue with the lineage of either themselves to general choi, or their stlye to tae kwon. that is why (forgot this part) taekwondo in korea looks differnit, and you also donn't see alot of korean taekwondoka in the oylimpics, since when they spar it's full contact. in fact you don't score a point unless the force of your kick knocks your opponent back 4 inches, or on their butt, i beleive. know the contact is full and you have to move your opponent back so far, i'm just not shure how far.

sweet Brighit bless your blade

John

 

[Jerry]

taekwondo was orginally made by general choi of the south korean army as the disarmed form of combat (a heavly modified version is taught for much the same reason to the armys of most countrys including the u.s.).
"Made" is something of an overstatement. The Korean government, interested in a national martial art, created the committie that created TKD. The name is likely from Choi, and he had a lot of involvement in its creation; but it's not entirely his.

when japan took over korea in WWII the japanese goverment out lawed native martial arts, driving most of them to the break of extensoin, and completly destroying tae kwon according to legend. as a way to 'japanese' the koreans, the japanese goverment forced many people to learn japanese martial arts, namely Shotokan Karate-do.
I'm curious what you mean by "forced". Studying MA was not compulsary. (to my knowledge).

taekwondo became a very well know stlyeand many people began to slack off on their training and taught what they often refered to as "inproved taekwondo". know then what is really traditional teakwondo?
I've got no clue what you are referring to.

well, outside south korea (since it is a crime in at least south korea to teach taekwondo in the north), nothing really.
"it's a crime, in South Korea to teach TKD in North Korea"? This makes sense to you?

that is why (forgot this part) taekwondo in korea looks differnit, and you also donn't see alot of korean taekwondoka in the oylimpics, since when they spar it's full contact.
You may want to tell that the the Korean Olympic TKD team. They apparently are unaware of your statement and show up and compete.

 

[CuongNhuka]

jerr, i mean know that, but i also know that general choi is normally considered the founder, and their for he "created" teakwondo. i mean that if you whated to learn a form of martial arts, you to learn Shotokan, and folks who did native martial arts were told "you can either stop doing martial arts altogther or you can do Shotokan, and you don't what to know what will happen if you try to keep doing your own style". they changed some things added others, and made sparring the art not just practice (and made sparring "better" by making it light or no conact and a bunch of other rules that make it so that it is very hard to get effective trainingfor self defense). acctuly yes it does. in South korea if you teach taekwon do to some one from North Korea it is considered treason. taekwon do was devopled as a, for lack of a better phrase, secert method to use if norht korea decided to try and attack. which is also why north korea has alot of tae kwon schools, to deal with that little unpleasintry. and think that at some point the u.n. did some thing like that to. but i don't know. and i mean they have, normally, a smaller percentige of teakwondoka at the olyimpics (doing it the way it was meant to), or something. i don't do that stlye so it doesn't really matter to much to me.

sweet Brighit bless your blade

John