Traditional Blocks

[Hand Sword]

I'm a newbie here, and would like to throw out this question. Do traditional blocks truly work in a real self defense situation?

 

[Mark Weiser]

SGM Parker in his books and thur his black belts always stressed learning the basics because all the Techniques in Kenpo are just extensions of basics. So I have to say a big YES

 

[Doc]

I'm a newbie here, and would like to throw out this question. Do traditional blocks truly work in a real self defense situation?

What "traditional" blocks are you speaking of? Your question is extremely broad and very non-specific in information.

 

[loki09789]

I'm a newbie here, and would like to throw out this question. Do traditional blocks truly work in a real self defense situation?

Yes, they can work. The question is can you as practitioner make them work?

The thing about Kenpo is functionallity. The 'blocks' are not just 'blocks' but are mechanical structures/force generators. At first you learn to apply them to a stimulus of a strike as a way to stop the strike from connecting cleanly (I specify cleanly because sometimes you will still catch a piece of it).

As time goes on in training, hopefully, you begin to realize that you are not 'blocking a strike' so much as using force to 'disrupt the limb/attack' and therefore causing pain/temporary or permanent dysfunction of that tool/weapon for attack. Simply put, you are 'attacking the attack' with your blocking motions.

 

[The Kai]

Also most Hard Block are training exercises, full range of motion, chambering to hip, etc.-in a situation or sparring they can be altered or adapted to the situation.
Todd

 

[loki09789]

Also most Hard Block are training exercises, full range of motion, chambering to hip, etc.-in a situation or sparring they can be altered or adapted to the situation.
Todd

Good point Todd, too often artists can't differentiate between application training and mechanical/form training. They are different focus and require different approaches.

 

[jfarnsworth]

I think that I would rather parry.

 

[lonecoyote]

Loki09789's insightful answer put it so well. A block is not just a block, it is a movement that can be use for so much, like how a strong inside block with a stance change high on your opponents arm can turn them, putting you outside the reach of their weapons and opening up all kinds of targets for you to use.

 

[The Kai]

I think that I would rather parry.

To Parry or avoid is a great way to say energy and possible damage to your own arms. However, there are times when you need the ability to hard block with authority.
Todd

 

[loki09789]

To Parry or avoid is a great way to say energy and possible damage to your own arms. However, there are times when you need the ability to hard block with authority.
Todd

It is also a great lesson in 'heart' or 'fear control/stimulus response - hypervigilence reaction reduction' training because it is a simple move and the student can focus on dealing with the internal stress of facing a strike and being successful at stopping it in a controlled/safe context. It builds a foundation both mental and emotional that can be a spring board of confidence (in himself and the art/technique) to move into other things.

 

[Mark Weiser]

That is what SGM Parker taught that every move has equal and opposite application.

 

[The Kai]

It is also a great lesson in 'heart' or 'fear control/stimulus response - hypervigilence reaction reduction' training because it is a simple move and the student can focus on dealing with the internal stress of facing a strike and being successful at stopping it in a controlled/safe context. It builds a foundation both mental and emotional that can be a spring board of confidence (in himself and the art/technique) to move into other things.

Actually the confidence is the biggest issue, when hard blocking students have a tendancy to "act" confident, and hopefully that becomes acting confident. In sparring context I tell my guys - any body can punch, but it is a martial artist that can actually block.
Todd

 

[bzarnett]

Traditional block useful? Dropping the term "traditional" and replacing it with "is blocking in Kenpo useful" I would start with describing what a block is. A block is one of four methods we use to defend ourself. We can 1) strike, 2) parry, 3) position, and 4) pin (check) -- volume 3 of Infinite Insights I think. The term block provides me a context of my action.

If I hammer to my opponents forearm with my forearm with the intention of stopping his attack I am blocking. If I hammer to my opponent's forearm with my forearm with the intention of creating a minor move to allow for anatomical position because of factors X, Y, and Z then I am striking.

Regardless, they are "striking" movements which means in order to be effective I have to be in the proper dimensional stage of action for the block to work. Mr. Parker's sayings about blocking on the inside and outside of the arm are good examples of when a block should be used. Try doing Shield and mace when you block too far away -- the left straight punch if you do it at a poor DSA will not have the desired effect.

The blocks work great if you use them at the appropriate distance and with contact penetration. A block does not work if you stop the block on surface contact -- you don't create an effect.

 

[Kenpodoc]

I'll probably get in trouble for saying this but traditional blocks don't work well. But as stated above striking the opposing weapon can move you out of harm's way and unbalance the opponet setting up your next move. The strike can also hurt enough to discourage half hearted attacks. The way I now look at Kenpo is that I don't really block I just keep setting up the next strike. Striking block to unbalance the opponent, parry with a strike, slip with a strike. That doesn't mean that one shouldn't learn blocks. They are an important transitional stage as one learns kenpo.

Jeff

 

[Karazenpo]

I like to keep it real simple. All a 'block' is..........is something you put in the way of an attacking limb to impede the connection of that limb to the target. So, my answer is 'yes', anytime you put 'something' in the way of 'something' that is about to hit you, the end result is you keep from being hit. Call it 'traditional' call it 'Harry', it works! How you follow up is another question.

 

[jfarnsworth]

To Parry or avoid is a great way to say energy and possible damage to your own arms. However, there are times when you need the ability to hard block with authority.
Todd

I understand what you are saying but if I block a right punch extremely hard to stand my ground I just invited their left punch to come in faster and harder. Meaning, I strike/block the right arm and send it towards the attackers right side away from me that just helps them throw the left that much faster. Of course there are techniques that cover being inside of a left/right or right/left I was just commenting on a true hard block in general.
:asian:

 

[monkey-a-go-go]

If by traditional you mean from an Okinawan or similar style: their point is a block is strike and a strike a block. The attacker's limbs are meant to be destroyed lessening the ability or will to continue. Parker's first book "Kenpo Karate-Law of the Fist and Empty Hand" flat out calls them strikes which is more accurate and a great description in their use is provided. If you examine the Okinawan Shorin ryu kata often the "blocks" are performed with an aggressive forward movement indicating taking the offense. And you have to make note of the "wind up" hand and what it is doing. Someone grabs in response you angle offline and pin their hand and perform an upward block or inside block attacking the elbow joint and wrenching the arm is a powerful deterent. Like others said also sometimes you're caught with nowhere else to go and have to do what you have to do. Can you injure yourself doing these type of blocks-yep. That's why they also had soft blocks/parries, body shifts and jumps etc to go to. So basically I didn't add much new. Sorry. LOL. Basically, the term "block" is dubious when you talk about traditional arts. Much is lost in translation and intent.

 

[jfarnsworth]

Maybe we should all be on the same terms of exactly what "block" we are using for what application.

If we're talking about conquering shield then damn straight I'm using a hard inward block then dropping down with the elbow. We should clarify what we are specifically talking about. :asian:

 

[The Kai]

I understand what you are saying but if I block a right punch extremely hard to stand my ground I just invited their left punch to come in faster and harder. Meaning, I strike/block the right arm and send it towards the attackers right side away from me that just helps them throw the left that much faster. Of course there are techniques that cover being inside of a left/right or right/left I was just commenting on a true hard block in general.
:asian:

I understand your point and recoginize the problem. However if you block the outside of the arm the oppisite effect is true. Also the angle of the block can alter subtly and change the attacking weapons path and effect the uke's balance. Lastly if you work your blocks for a while especially to the inside you "discover" variables in pentration. You don't have to push all the way thru a limb. Explode to a midpoint of the attacker's arm, stop. It is believed (by me) that this way the force stays in the arm
Todd

 

[bzarnett]

Best way to find out if the blocks work - or they way you do a block...pop on some high gear or some form of protective body armor (not a red man though) and go to town.