Tradition: Good or Bad?

[w.kaer]

...For me...my dilema comes when i see people in the martial arts filed being more concerned about how strong they are physically. Or how fast they are. Or even, how much they can hurt someones body...

In the event that we need to use the skills taught in the dojo, the strength and the quickness will serve you well. They will be the deciding factors in any engagement, big or small.


Humans are not animals with no sense of honor or justice. We see things differently then we did 20 years ago, 50 years ago, and 100 years ago.

On the whole, humans are not animals, but, I am afraid that their are animals among us. Where we do see things differently, it is because the situation has changed over the last 20, 50, and 100 years. 100 years ago we were just taking to the air. Now we fly in space. That is evolution. Technology has brought things to us quicker and to more area. All in all, technological innovation has improved the human race. The question now seems to be "Can we?" when it should perhaps be "Should we?" Technology has brought about a lapse in ethical cosideration, especially in the general public. Those with evil intent (and even those with no evil intent, but all sorts of opinions) have taken full advantage of the techology and mass media to disseminate their messages to anyone who will listen in hopes of the message taking root. As long as this is the mechanism that the "evil do-ers" (I know it sounds extreme, but I couldn't think of a different term) are taking advantage of, maybe listening to those who came before us may yield wonderful messages for us to think over and help us find the way. It is true that today's world is a crazy place. Having faith in the inherent good of common people and listening to those hallowed lessons of our forefathers may grant us peace and strength to do what is right.

Sorry if I got a little stream-of-consciousness on you.

 

[Elayna]

**Having faith in the inherent good of common people and listening to those hallowed lessons of our forefathers may grant us peace and strength to do what is right.** W.Kaer....I tottaly agree with this.And you know, I have been doing some thinking on Tradition, especially after so many replies with so many different points of view. I dont think that it is Tradition that has...corrupted if you will, "the art". I think it is the people that have, for one reason or another. Because I know some people in the martial arts that dont do tradition in any form of the word...and they are just as bad as those that do.I am just a little disturbed as why martial arts has become more about other things...such as what your belt rank is, if you train in a dojo or not, and if you can tear someones arms off. Instead about learning, and learning and learning. No matter, where, who or what you are. I would like to use an exampleXMA...Xtreme martial arts. Now dont put me up on the whipping post for this. But to me its like. COME ON. They want to see how many bricks they can break, how fast they are, how strong they are and so on. I watched a full documentary on it. a 4 hour one. I see the point in that, Its fun ok. But to call it a martial arts, as if it has any place in that martial art world is beyond me. Now of course, for those that participate in it it may be all that. All I can say is this....SHOWING how fast, how strong, and how....whatever you are, is going to do no good against a true master of the art, who never shows you anything but how well he can grow a tomatoe. LOL.Anyhooo...I have alot to say on the subject...But I would be here forever. LOL.Balance in all things. Balance in every part of your life.This will truly help everyone become a true master.TTYl....Dork out.

 

[Robert Lee]

If you look at what is called TMA in the different arts. You find that it is not the old TMA it is a revised version added onto by past instructors. Much of The Karate styles have really added on many more kata then was there befor . And then that is called traditional now. The new kata and some are now 50 to 75 years old are not really needed They water down the old training are more for sport are more so you can learn easyer and compete with them. That was what many were added for. Not to improve a given style but say promote that style better to the public. In those Kata was some of the open selfdefnce drills that was practiced. Or the borrowed training from another ryu. Real tradition has long since been gone and a new tradition has taken its place. And that gives life to what the M/A evolved to Less geared for real life application And geared more for sport and exersise. And you can research your style and read the quotes from the past Masters about the modern changes and the whys as to how come they changed the teachings.

 

[funnytiger]

I think that, as Grenadier says, tradition is important, because it is proof that a system works, that the kinks have been worked out of the system.

There is another purpose to tradition: it creates an atmosphere. I have been in classes that are less traditional, and they are good classes - but for myself, the atmosphere provided by the more traditional, formal instruction (uniforms, formal address, straight lines, etc.) help me to attain a mindset that sets my training time apart from the rest of my day - and I need that. It works for me, and helps me with my training. Not everyone does - and for those people, a less traditional setting may work better.

As far as the general question, of whether tradition is good or bad - I don't think it's either. Tradition just is - and in some settings, and for some people, it is appropriate and/or useful - in other settings, and for other people, it is inappropriate and/or not useful. It is up to the individual whether or not tradition is good or bad for the person.

I'm right with ya on this one 100%.

For me, the traditional part of MA doesn't necessarily have to conflict with the progression of the fighting techniques although I understand in some arts they (fighting techniques and tradition) are one in the same.

For my school and our style it is definitely constantly evolving, but we keep true to the traditions. One of my favorite traditional aspects is Chinese Lion dancing. Its a tradition that I think a lot of kung fu schools are letting go of unfortunately. Its a pity too... it is such a beautiful thing to watch and participate in not to mention its great for your kung fu!

- ft

 

[Xue Sheng]

Tradition can be a very good thing, but traditions can become antiquated as well. It is at this point the traditions need to be changed or new traditions need to be developed. However changing traditions because you do not understand them or to make something easier or more appealing is not a good thing, it dilutes the art and can destroy it.

 

[ronin_warrior_j]

Its depends on the art your studying and also what you want to get out of the art. If your studying a traditional art and are looking for more flash then tradition is probably a bad thing. If your just looking for a place to belong and be accepted while learning honor and decipline then tradition is good. Is you personality that decides wether or not tradition is your cup of tea.

 

[Shaolinwind]

It makes me wonder if there are some things that should stay the same, or if everything needs to change.

I wouldn't begin to entertain the idea of everything needing to change. I certainly am not wise or experienced enough to question traditional training methods. Are you? :asian:

 

[Ignignokt]

I think that this question arises with the assumption that we are always evolving into more intelligent beings. This is not true. We still don't understand much of ancient Egyptian technology and GPA's continue to fall along with the curve. I believe that the answer to this question completely depends on the stile. Some are fine how they are and some need some refinement. Simple as that.

 

[Kreth]

I believe that the answer to this question completely depends on the stile.

What does farming equipment have to do with the topic?

 

[Elayna]

Hey Everyone.So I tottaly have to agree that, depending on the art and the person, that tradition could be a good or bad thing. I definatly see Kacey's point, in that the traditional forms of doing things such as bowing, kneeling, name addresses, and so on are very good, in my opinion. I believe that these things help us to show our respect for the art, for our teacher and for ourselves. Plus I also believe by doing this "traditional" things, it also helps us to get into "the zone".However, I personally believe that their are traditions that should be done away with in general. Such as training that is so harsh that it breaks bones, causes huge welts and brusies the size of melons, and anything that hurts your nerves over and over. (once or twice demonstrating I dont think will do the body harm). I believe that by doing these things continusouly will only accomplish one thing...Surgery, over and over. And why is that a good thing?Now I know that there are some people out there that believe that pain is the way to enlightment...and if that is for you, then by all means. I would just personally suggest...Loving your body. LOL. Or at least listening to a doctor.As far as questioning if tradition should change our not, I guess I should have worded it better.We should question if SOME things should change. I believe it is our duty and our right to question all that comes before us that effects us. I dont claim, never have, and never will, to be wise enough to make decisions on the behalf of others. However, I will claim to want to better myself, those around me and this world. I think this earth, and its people could use a little help. But...with all my time going between my son and my hubby and whatever else...I wouldnt sign me up for too much....Hehehehe.I do have to say though....I believe that once we stop questioning, tradition, authority, or anything that has power over us, we are no better then mindless drones. And I personally dont like the thought of that. LOL.I do have to say too...I believe in respect for authority, tradition and power. Clean, honest, and knowing respect. Not because we HAVE to, but because we WANT to, and because whatever it is....deserves it.Anyhooo...I love the posts....I hope that this thread has helped someone somewhere....even if its just little ole me. Hehehehe

 

[Ignignokt]

What does farming equipment have to do with the topic?

Oops, I meant style.

"Idiot"

 

[kingkong89]

Tradition, it may be the old way but it is the best way, i have been in martial arts a long time and i want to say, yes we try new things, look at the Xtreme Martial Arts, there is a lot of flash but if you were to watch it in slow motion you would see that everything in it is traditional only at a faster pace. so a leg block is a leg block and a front stance is a front stance. hope that helps