To Cdhall...

D

DireWolf

Guest
This Christianity business is confusing. I'm hoping to make it to Black Belt and then meditate on whether I want to teach or continue after that.

Hi Cdhall! I too am a Christian and I think that Jesus is about the only thing I love more than my wife or Martial Arts. Just a question: Why would you not want to continue after black belt level? Most ma's will be only too happy to tell you that BB is where it begins, not where it ends. Not teaching I understand (not everyone is a teacher, regardless of rank) but is there a spiritual reason for this?

Thanks!

:yinyang:
DW
 

Damian Mavis

Master Black Belt
Joined
Mar 21, 2002
Messages
1,201
Reaction score
11
Location
Bangkok, Thailand
I'm not a Christian but that's a very good point. Black belt is only the beginning, that's when you really start to learn. Quitting then is kind of silly.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD
 
OP
S

Shinzu

Guest
MA is a life long commitment. to give up on it would be like not breathing. it is, and always should be part of who you are.

your training truly begins after black belt.
 

7starmantis

Grandmaster
MTS Alumni
Joined
Aug 13, 2002
Messages
5,493
Reaction score
54
Location
East Texas
Originally posted by DireWolf

Hi Cdhall! I too am a Christian and I think that Jesus is about the only thing I love more than my wife or Martial Arts. Just a question: Why would you not want to continue after black belt level? Most ma's will be only too happy to tell you that BB is where it begins, not where it ends. Not teaching I understand (not everyone is a teacher, regardless of rank) but is there a spiritual reason for this?

Thanks!

:yinyang:
DW

I am curious as well, I consider myself a Christian, most traditional Christians wouldn't consider me that, but I do....anyway, I think teaching is a great way to help people as well. Just my few cents on it.


7sm
 

cdhall

Master Black Belt
Joined
Mar 17, 2002
Messages
1,115
Reaction score
6
Location
Texas
Originally posted by DireWolf

Hi Cdhall! I too am a Christian and I think that Jesus is about the only thing I love more than my wife or Martial Arts. Just a question: Why would you not want to continue after black belt level? Most ma's will be only too happy to tell you that BB is where it begins, not where it ends. Not teaching I understand (not everyone is a teacher, regardless of rank) but is there a spiritual reason for this?

Thanks!

:yinyang:
DW

Thanks everyone who has posted before me. My dilemma is whether the whole "turn the other cheek" thing means "don't retaliate against an attack."
A) If so, then maybe I should not be doing this at all and I should quit, but I am going to persist until Black Belt before I "quit."

B) If not, then it is OK for me to continue as before because I really kind of like Kenpo and President Truman's policy of Massive Retaliation (I hope I got that right) and I can continue as before.

That is really it. I agree with you that learning accelerates at Black Belt, and that this really marks the beginning of another journey, it may be like High School in that you have to go through grades 1-8 to get there, but it is grades 9-12 that are the payoff.

I have had such a dramatic change in my life that I have to be sure I don't just "overlook" this aspect of my life and I feel obligate to figure this one out. On the Spiderman Post (55617) nightingale8472 claimed:

The phrase "Turn the other cheek" has to be taken in historical context. At that time period, in that society, slapping someone across the face was an insult, equivalent to spitting on someone or giving them "the finger" today. In light of this context, "turn the other cheek" could be interpreted as a directive to ignore petty insults and not make mountains out of molehills. That passage in the bible doesn't address the concept of self-defense at all.

and linked to
http://www.gac.20m.com/self-def.htm

I hope this all checks out like she says, it is basically what I had thought before. I think it lends credibility to the "Peace through Strength" philosophy which I also like.

I have looked at this site just now and I agree with nightingale8472 and I'm optimistic that it will turn out that I can continue to pursue my Martial Arts goals. However, I will look into this further and I must also say that I am very pleased and encouraged by everyone who has posted here today.

Now that you all have gotten me started ;) I may even have a story if you want to hear it. It just happened Saturday but I'll hesitate before I post about it.

Thanks again to each of you. Your compassion for my dilemma is meaningful to me.

:asian:
 
OP
K

Kirk

Guest
Originally posted by cdhall

Now that you all have gotten me started ;) I may even have a story if you want to hear it. It just happened Saturday but I'll hesitate before I post about it.

Awww, c'mon, post about it! :)
 

7starmantis

Grandmaster
MTS Alumni
Joined
Aug 13, 2002
Messages
5,493
Reaction score
54
Location
East Texas
I have to tell you cdhall, I was raised in a very legalistic religious home. Martial arts were out of the questions for quite a while. I started MA when I was 7 years old, but then got pulled out because of basically the same argument presented here today. So understand that many people have struggled with the same thing you are now. It comes down to a personal decision, but let me just share mine with you.
After being involved in MA for quite a while just out of spite for my father, I was hit with the argument again, by a very good friend in the MA community with me. It took me quite a while to come to my decision. Gorwing up I had to memorize entire books of the bible in english, greek and hebrew, respectivly. So I went back to the translations to study and find my answer. What I found is actually so simple its insulting. What I found was that to not defend yourself or your family is not only not right, but it is wrong. Jesus asked Peter three times if he loved him, do you remember that? Peter answered yes all three times. Do you remember Jesus' response? "Feed my sheep". If you take that in its historical context, sheep are totaly helpless. When a wolf or something came into the shepherds flock, he protected the sheep with his bare hands. He didn't stop to give God a chance to save them, he protected them with Gods protection on him. Its that analogy that as a Christian you must use, I believe. God gave us a mind, and a body to use, lets use it. A God given talent for MA is still a talent given by God and He expects you to use it to its fullest. Ok, enough of my soapbox!! :soapbox:

Originally posted by cdhall

Thanks everyone who has posted before me. My dilemma is whether the whole "turn the other cheek" thing means "don't retaliate against an attack."
A) If so, then maybe I should not be doing this at all and I should quit, but I am going to persist until Black Belt before I "quit."
I don't mean to sound harsh or rude, but ask yourslef this, if you truly believed it was wrong to be involved in MA, would you continue to Blackbelt to quit? Just a question only you can answer though.
I hope this has helped you just a little in your search.
 

cdhall

Master Black Belt
Joined
Mar 17, 2002
Messages
1,115
Reaction score
6
Location
Texas
Originally posted by Kirk

Awww, c'mon, post about it! :)

All right, all right.

Since I became a Christian last year I am doing pretty good at listening to "that little voice" and getting impressive results.

I am also looking for little meanings in stuff and trying to get lessons from them. The guy who actually was the "last link in my chain" says this is wrong, but I have some good evidence to dispute him. He thinks I'm flirting with "magic." It is a shame we don't get along better.

Anyway, on Sat I was thinking as I was driving to camp at 90mph (only sometimes :)) "why am I going to camp a day late?" This is truly inconceivable (as Vicini would say). I could not imagine why I would go to camp late. I would much rather not show up and then deal with it later, but I felt I could not do this and that I must get to camp.

Then halfway there I realized I forgot "The Journey" at home and now I'm late AND I can't get Mr. Trejo to sign my book!!! I'm mad now!

I'm thinking, God has a reason for "sending" me to camp. If I had it my way, I'd turn around now and go home, but something was compelling me to just go and get there and deal with the consequences.

So I get to camp just after lunch and fall into class right away.

About 3 hours later I am pulled from class to go test for 2nd Brown with a group of guys going for 3rd Brown.

Mr. Trejo, Mr. White and Mr. Duffy did the honors of testing us. The other guys knew they were testing this weekend. I actually had confirmed on Tues that I was not going to be testing at camp.

Oh well.

So I tested for 2nd and I passed. I'm a 2nd Brown now. It is now my goal to test for Black next year at camp and I expect Kirk to be there!

How's that for a miracle? I classify this stuff as Miracles which is another long story in itself, but I mean the only reason I am a 2nd now is because I felt compelled to go to camp, out of shape, out of character and unprepared, ie. no flashlight, no bathtowel....

Amazing. Praise the Lord!

:asian:
 

cdhall

Master Black Belt
Joined
Mar 17, 2002
Messages
1,115
Reaction score
6
Location
Texas
Originally posted by 7starmantis

...What I found was that to not defend yourself or your family is not only not right, but it is wrong...God gave us a mind, and a body to use, lets use it. A God given talent for MA is still a talent given by God and He expects you to use it to its fullest. Ok, enough of my soapbox!! :soapbox:


I am more and more rapidly coming to this conclusion.


I don't mean to sound harsh or rude, but ask yourslef this, if you truly believed it was wrong to be involved in MA, would you continue to Blackbelt to quit? Just a question only you can answer though.
I hope this has helped you just a little in your search.

Excellent point. I would continue to Black Belt at this point out of stubborness, I can always ask forgiveness even if I'm wrong, right? So that was how that was going to happen. I thought I'd bring that up since it was a very good point. I suspected it was "wrong" but I had so much invested I was going to do it anyway. It really is about the last thing I have to "give up" I've just about given up everything else and waited to see if it was correct or not and the surprises have been amazing. But this was something I dared not entrust fully to the Lord because I was afraid he would not give it back.

I think though, that I have worked through it. As a youth, I was noticeably talented in performing and teaching this stuff and I have wondered why God might give me such a talent in the first place. I have wondered what else it should have been channeled toward. And that friend of mine who I mentioned earlier, he was also the Best Man at my Wedding this year, says that God will help me achieve my true desire if I will not get in His way. And so far the thing I get the most fun, satisfaction, health benefit, etc from is Kenpo and that was also bothering me.

But I think I can proceed at full steam now although I need to get all this straight so I can "defend" this position if I have to.

Mantis, et al, I never took anything as rude. Harsh is OK anyway in some cases, but I am very grateful for all of your participation in this thread and I'm very grateful to Direwolf for starting it.

I hope I answered everything OK and that you know this has been very fruitful for me.

I am also glad that this is where the news of my promotion was posted and that this is also the post that made me a Martial Talk Purple Belt!!! :karate:

:asian:
 

7starmantis

Grandmaster
MTS Alumni
Joined
Aug 13, 2002
Messages
5,493
Reaction score
54
Location
East Texas
Congrats on two promotions!! Brown2nd, and "purple" :D

I'm glad you understood what I was trying to say in my post and didn't take it rude. I hope it has helped a bit. Good luck in all you do, and especially in your Christian life.


7sm
 

cdhall

Master Black Belt
Joined
Mar 17, 2002
Messages
1,115
Reaction score
6
Location
Texas
Thank you.
Yes, I appreciate everything on this whole thread.
God bless you all.
:asian:
 
OP
S

Shinzu

Guest
congrats on the promotion :) i hope you find what you seek during your journey!!
 

Carbon

Blue Belt
Joined
Mar 8, 2002
Messages
253
Reaction score
0
Location
Grapevine, Texas
I don't mean to sound counter-productive, but....

Do you use religion to motivate yourself?

I mean I know that this might sound bad considering you are all religious loving people but I myself find that over essentric religion makes me wary of the person preaching it.

I don't want to put you down I'm just kinda throwing my view into the conversation and wondering if anyone else is like this?

I have a rather crazed grandmother who was very religious and another who is still alive today. They always preach about being christian and get onto me because I don't want to watch a pastor with them on TV.

I am wondering if anyone else is semi-atheist on this forum besides me?
 

Damian Mavis

Master Black Belt
Joined
Mar 21, 2002
Messages
1,201
Reaction score
11
Location
Bangkok, Thailand
Of course there are Carbon but I think we should just leave that topic alone. Nothing good can come from it.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD
 

7starmantis

Grandmaster
MTS Alumni
Joined
Aug 13, 2002
Messages
5,493
Reaction score
54
Location
East Texas
Originally posted by Damian Mavis

Of course there are Carbon but I think we should just leave that topic alone. Nothing good can come from it.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

Agree!!
Plus I had a friend once that was semipregnant. :D
 

cdhall

Master Black Belt
Joined
Mar 17, 2002
Messages
1,115
Reaction score
6
Location
Texas
Originally posted by Carbon

I don't mean to sound counter-productive, but....

Do you use religion to motivate yourself?

I mean I know that this might sound bad considering you are all religious loving people but I myself find that over essentric religion makes me wary of the person preaching it.

I don't want to put you down I'm just kinda throwing my view into the conversation and wondering if anyone else is like this?

I have a rather crazed grandmother who was very religious and another who is still alive today. They always preach about being christian and get onto me because I don't want to watch a pastor with them on TV.

I am wondering if anyone else is semi-atheist on this forum besides me?

Carbon,
I am not sure what you mean.
I don't like to "Bible-thump" because I was an atheiest and/or agnostic pretty much for 30 years and seeing a bunch of hypocrytes preach never did me any good either. This is one reason I have been careful to restrict my religious comments on a forum like this.

But the church I got to preaches about the life-changing reality of Jesus Christ which I always thought was a bunch of delusionary crap until last year.

Quickly I'll tell you this. I was not doing well in my sales job, I was about to be evicted for the first time in my life, things were not going well. A religious buddy of mine corralled me at his house one day and preached to me about how God is the answer... etc ad nauseum, I thought he was insane.

Anyway, he let me go at about 1pm with a reminder that no matter what my problem was, God could make it disappear with no effort. For months I had already conceeded there might be a God but I thought the Christians, and Jesus were probably all nuts. Nevertheless I said a prayer on my way home. I got home about 1:15pm and the phone was ringing. The short version of this is that a guy from out of state who had never met me, called me and asked if he could wire me $600 to pay my rent. He got it to me to avoid me being evicted. That being the case I negotiated to move out of my apartment and the company had a special on some Luxury Apts right next to the Church I was now involved with and we moved in there for just about free and overall the rent was cheaper because of the special. Weeks later I said a prayer after a job interview, I directly asked God for a favor. Within 30mins a Christian friend of mine called out of the blue with a lead on a job that I eventually took. It paid 150% of what I had previously been making on salary and it had benefits.

This was all within 45days of officially becoming a Christian. There is more. My son became a Christian later, his mother and I got married on a Sat and baptised the following Sunday and now I'm looking at buying a house, all within 18 months of this Christianity thing. I am a poster child for the Life-Changing reality of Jesus Christ. Honest to God I thought it was all a bunch of crap my whole life, but this rapid, unquestionable chain of events has forced me to believe that Jesus is who he said he was. There is NO WAY I had the predominant influence over these events in my life. None. They were either amazing, startling coincidences or a great run of good luck or they were miracles like the Church says they were.

Prior to all this I had already seen too many "coincidences" to believe that they were all "coincidences" anyway and now I have a new outlook.

Most recently I think the Holy Spirit encouraged me to get to camp a day late as I related and that has had and will have a direct positive impact on my Martial Arts career.

So I don't use religion to motivate me, per se, but I mean with what I have been through it is difficult not to shout Praise God every 15 mins. I am new to all of this though and while I'm not a skeptic anymore, I'm trying to do what God wants me to do and this I think is how this thread got started. It seems pretty clear to me now that my Martial Arts interest an abilities are God-given and I am being cleared to pursue them and put them to good use.

I am so greatful for MartialTalk and this thread in particular. I have been a Brown Belt for 11years. This year I joined MartialTalk partly to keep my interest alive... I competed in a tournament circuit and won 1st in Forms, 1st in Weapons and 3rd in Sparring for Central Texas and I have been invited to the State Championships.

There a flood of God trying to help me out and show me what to do and I think I'm getting the picture. It is amazing. Nothing short of amazing. My church says that somehow all my good fortune is meant to glorify God. I am still pondering about all this, but maybe someone else will see this post and get some of the shocking, dramatic, earth-shaking, paradigm-shifting evidence they need to help them out somehow.

I would never have become a Christian through "faith alone" I'm afraid. Which is how you are "supposed" to get there, it took a dramatic, powerful, undeniable intervention by Christ into my life to get me on this train. But I'm here now and I hope I can help others have a portion of what I've seen.

The guy that sort of "brought me to Jesus" has a High School education and makes over $100,000 year. He says it is all God's grace. He is probably now moving toward becoming a Pastor or something. He just recently sold his large house for 1/4 Million to scale down his lifestyle in preparation for what he feels is an impending opportunity to change his focus. There is a lot of this going on in the world.

I hope I touched on your question, but I hope even more how you can see that with an unending stream of "good-luck" pouring toward me, that I can't help but acknowledge it periodically.

Some or all of this is already on my website at
http://www.cdouglashall.com/christ.html
but I will probably update that all later and maybe change the URL. There is a Cross on my homepage which links to that page though and if I change the URL, the link from the cross will still work.

I hope I have not just offended everyone on Earth with my gushing enthusiasm but I could not help myself. I know 7sm and Damian both wanted to caution everyone about addressing the topic. But I hope I have done OK. I wanted to relate my position because it was dramatic and it can not really be explained away.

Again, I want to sincerely thank everyone who has posted to this thread because without you the end result would have been different and I have personally already gotten a lot out of this. Thanks again.

:asian:
 

cdhall

Master Black Belt
Joined
Mar 17, 2002
Messages
1,115
Reaction score
6
Location
Texas
Hey 7sm, you are now a Black Belt with 501 posts. :eek: Congratulations.
:asian:
 
OP
D

DireWolf

Guest
June 15! That's my birthday! What a spin.

I have a rather crazed grandmother who was very religious and another who is still alive today. They always preach about being christian and get onto me because I don't want to watch a pastor with them on TV

That stuff is responsible for more atheists and anti-christian people than just about anything else.

Will post more later...in big hurry.

:yinyang:
DW
 

ace

Master of Arts
Joined
May 26, 2002
Messages
1,573
Reaction score
16
Location
N.Y.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Top