To break or not to break

[caped crusader]

Neither do heavy bags. I've never bought that pithy comment as an actual substantive argument.

Boxing bags and speed balls are useful training Tools.
Breaking Boards is an ego thing.
Leave ego at the door

 

[Alan0354]

I don't want to say breaking is necessary, but I strongly believe in conditioning the hands and feet so if you hit the skull with the fist or kicking the legs of the opponent, you will not hurt yourself. This is what I don't twice a week, exactly that much and no more. I don't hit that hard, just for conditioning. I think it's very important, nothing for show.

I punch and kick heavy bags( hard ones, not those soft bags you see around) for years, it doesn't NOT train your knuckles and shin at all. Have to do it on something hard.

 

[J. Pickard]

I like to keep breaking available but is always optional. Once you know the tricks to it it becomes less impressive. our little kids love to do it so we keep the thin demo boards around for them because they get a kick out of it (pun intended). I also keep a stack of 2.75 inch Holland Paver red bricks and real 1inch thick pine boards around for the older kids and adults that want to try breaking (taught a young girl how to break the red brick at her 6th gup testing, she was super proud and it boosted her confidence a ton). Its fun but has F@$# all to do with actual combat and good technique. There are other, better ways to demonstrate your understanding of every principle of a technique. But again, it is admittedly a lot of fun albeit sometimes painful, to play around and find new way and things to smash through.

 

[J. Pickard]

You must be one hell of a teacher. I have been watching people learning to break boards for years now. The many students I have watched have taken many classes to buildup to breaking a think/harder board.

In ITF Taekwon-Do it is a requirement that you break a brick to pass your black belt exam. In much the same way that it takes time to condition your body to break a board, it takes years to condition your body to be able to break a brick.

Nah man, he's right, its super easy to learn and teach to others. I've done it. If it takes years to learn to break a board (assuming 1 inch pine) then you are doing it wrong and/or your instructor is talking it up a lot for some reason. I also taught a girl, 16 years old, to break a brick in about 10 minutes at the end of her 6th gup (green belt) testing. Not a cheap concreate gray brick, a red paving brick that our town uses to pave roads. You can see the video on our Insta page (New Heights Martial Arts). It is super easy to break a board once you know how its done and anybody who knows how it's done can explain it to a complete novice in 10 minutes or less and have them successfully break a board.

 

[J. Pickard]

Anyone with an ounce of skill can teach a non-martial artist to break a board in less than a day.

Cthulhu

Yep. Its a neat party trick.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Yep. Its a neat party trick.

Depends. It's also a good way to teach power generation.

 

[J. Pickard]

Depends. It's also a good way to teach power generation.

It can be, but I like other methods like makiwara and hanging bags better personally. Trying to get a heavy bag to collapse around a technique (as opposed to pushing the bag) is way more impressive in my opinion and gives a better visual aid than board breaking and is a bit more thorough. You can have bad alignment and still break a board but have bad alignment while learning to generate power against a makiwara or a heavy bag and you'll feel it right away and correct it sooner. Not saying it's useless, just that I personally prefer other ways of exploring power generation. To each his own I suppose.

 

[Alan0354]

It can be, but I like other methods like makiwara and hanging bags better personally. Trying to get a heavy bag to collapse around a technique (as opposed to pushing the bag) is way more impressive in my opinion and gives a better visual aid than board breaking and is a bit more thorough. You can have bad alignment and still break a board but have bad alignment while learning to generate power against a makiwara or a heavy bag and you'll feel it right away and correct it sooner. Not saying it's useless, just that I personally prefer other ways of exploring power generation. To each his own I suppose.

Punching poles and breaking boards definitely will not make you stronger, heavy bag is the way to go. Yes, looking at how much penetration into a hard heavy bag( like the good on Everready 70lbs white canvas bag), how little it moves and the sound will tell how hard you hit. Breaking board will not improve the punching or kicking power.

I punch poles like what I show in post #42 for years and I practice iron palms for years, they do NOT make me hit any powerful, just strengthen the hand or the shin so you don't injure yourself when hitting hard object.............Which by itself is useful......BUT put it in perspective, it's just strengthen the bones, nothing more.

 

[Alan0354]

Nah man, he's right, its super easy to learn and teach to others. I've done it. If it takes years to learn to break a board (assuming 1 inch pine) then you are doing it wrong and/or your instructor is talking it up a lot for some reason. I also taught a girl, 16 years old, to break a brick in about 10 minutes at the end of her 6th gup (green belt) testing. Not a cheap concreate gray brick, a red paving brick that our town uses to pave roads. You can see the video on our Insta page (New Heights Martial Arts). It is super easy to break a board once you know how its done and anybody who knows how it's done can explain it to a complete novice in 10 minutes or less and have them successfully break a board.

Ha ha, I am too cheap to actually buy pine boards to break, I used those re-breakable boards that you break and slide them back together and break again. Don't laugh, it's quite hard to break, it's not like child's play particular you stack them up WITHOUT GAP in between.

I actually play with those in the 90s, I broke up to 3 stacked together without gaps.( it's a whole hell of a lot easier if you put a little space in between boards like those demonstrations). That's was before I even start strengthening the bones. I just wore a thin bag glove before punching.

One time, for whatever reason, when I broke the boards, I busted my knuckle, it swollen big, I broke my knuckle. It still looks funny today. Took me a few months to recover. That's when I really practice punching polls starting with very light punch, slowly increase the force as the bones gets stronger. That's the only reason I punch and kick poll to avoid injuries. I never break boards since. Don't care to do it as it shows nothing other than you have strong bones.

 

[caped crusader]

Yep. Its a neat party trick.

X2

 

[J. Pickard]

Ha ha, I am too cheap to actually buy pine boards to break, I used those re-breakable boards that you break and slide them back together and break again. Don't laugh, it's quite hard to break, it's not like child's play particular you stack them up WITHOUT GAP in between.

I actually play with those in the 90s, I broke up to 3 stacked together without gaps.( it's a whole hell of a lot easier if you put a little space in between boards like those demonstrations). That's was before I even start strengthening the bones. I just wore a thin bag glove before punching.

One time, for whatever reason, when I broke the boards, I busted my knuckle, it swollen big, I broke my knuckle. It still looks funny today. Took me a few months to recover. That's when I really practice punching polls starting with very light punch, slowly increase the force as the bones gets stronger. That's the only reason I punch and kick poll to avoid injuries. I never break boards since. Don't care to do it as it shows nothing other than you have strong bones.

I actually find the re-breakable boards to be more challenging than a real board. No joke.

 

[J. Pickard]

Punching poles and breaking boards definitely will not make you stronger, heavy bag is the way to go. Yes, looking at how much penetration into a hard heavy bag( like the good on Everready 70lbs white canvas bag), how little it moves and the sound will tell how hard you hit. Breaking board will not improve the punching or kicking power.

I punch poles like what I show in post #42 for years and I practice iron palms for years, they do NOT make me hit any powerful, just strengthen the hand or the shin so you don't injure yourself when hitting hard object.............Which by itself is useful......BUT put it in perspective, it's just strengthen the bones, nothing more.

I agree punching poles will not make you punch harder.

 

[Alan0354]

I actually find the re-breakable boards to be more challenging than a real board. No joke.

That makes me feel better, it's not easy. You would think the re-breakable boards should be easier. I still have them, just never do it anymore. It was fun and game for a short time.

 

[Alan0354]

I agree punching poles will not make you punch harder.

Neither iron palm slapping the steel ball bearing bag. When UFC first came on in the 90s, I was thinking if a grappler shoot, his back will be right in front of me at waist level, iron palm would be the perfect strike to the back and kidney. I heard so much about iron palm, all the mystique of how it can hit so hard and all. So I practiced for a few years. I can tell you for sure, you do NOT hit any harder. It is so easy to test, I just slap on the heavy bag and see, you can feel how hard you hit right away just like punching. It's all a LIE. I got carpal tunnel on both hands because of that. I had to have surgery on my left hand. I am trying not to have surgery on the right hand as it's painful and more importantly, took months to recover.

There are so many exaggerated stories in MA( I try not to say LIES) you really have to use common sense to judge.

Breaking boards will NOT make you hit harder or focus better, those have to be trained on heavy bags or other means, all it proves is you have stronger knuckles, nothing more...............AND there are so many fakes, putting spacer between boards so they use momentum to break more boards instead using power. I want to see them breaking boards WITHOUT spacer in between and see how many they can break.

 

[Dirty Dog]

It can be, but I like other methods like makiwara and hanging bags better personally. Trying to get a heavy bag to collapse around a technique (as opposed to pushing the bag) is way more impressive in my opinion and gives a better visual aid than board breaking and is a bit more thorough. You can have bad alignment and still break a board but have bad alignment while learning to generate power against a makiwara or a heavy bag and you'll feel it right away and correct it sooner. Not saying it's useless, just that I personally prefer other ways of exploring power generation. To each his own I suppose.

Sure. I didn't say it was the ONLY way. Use what works for you.

 

[isshinryuronin]

I agree with Alan and Pickard that board breaking will not build power, but I can see it being a test for power. It can also be a confidence builder for those who need it. I have broken boards and a few bricks, but personally see little benefit from it.

Hitting a heavy bag builds power and will let you know if your wrist is aligned, as if not, a sprain will be suffered. Same with a partner holding focus mitts and giving active resistance against your punch. With my sensei as the mitt holder, combined impact force is double that of the heavy bag, maybe even more.

With the training described above and using proper body mechanics, along with a little, moderate weight training, I have complete confidence in my ability to land a punch with extreme results, even at my age.

Traditional Okinawan karate places much emphasis on the makiwara. The old masters suggest striking it 200 times with each side, daily. They saw it as a power builder. I have not seen that to be true, but I've never hit it near that many times, so cannot agree with or refute that. I do believe in its ability to condition the knuckles and bones. It also builds mental discipline.

As a lad I spent a good amount of time hitting one (a 2x4 wrapped in coarse rope, backed on the bottom half with a 4x4, so practically no give) till most of the skin on my knuckles was ripped off and blood flowed. It was challenging and enjoyable practice for me and I freely admit that's a little perverted. I sure do miss those early times in the dojo and still hold them close to my heart. Those first few years laid the foundation for the next 50.

 

[J. Pickard]

Traditional Okinawan karate places much emphasis on the makiwara. The old masters suggest striking it 200 times with each side, daily. They saw it as a power builder. I have not seen that to be true, but I've never hit it near that many times, so cannot agree with or refute that. I do believe in its ability to condition the knuckles and bones. It also builds mental discipline.

From my understanding the purpose of the makiwara is to learn to drive your power through your target, not just at your target. The purpose, that I was taught, was that the makiwara is intentionally flexible to some degree which is why it is usually a plank and not just a post, so that you learn to drive through and penetrate in addition to conditioning the hand. I think if you just hit makiwara to build callouses and deaden nerves you aren't getting the full benefit. As you hit the plank and try to drive through the plank begins to flex but also pushes back giving a level of resistance training that would be similar to a resistance band or even the weight of a heavy bag pushing back as well.

 

[isshinryuronin]

From my understanding the purpose of the makiwara is to learn to drive your power through your target, not just at your target. The purpose, that I was taught, was that the makiwara is intentionally flexible to some degree

Our makiwara was probably stiffer than most, also bloodier. Actually, very few of us used it regularly.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

From my understanding the purpose of the makiwara is to learn to drive your power through your target, not just at your target. The purpose, that I was taught, was that the makiwara is intentionally flexible to some degree which is why it is usually a plank and not just a post, so that you learn to drive through and penetrate in addition to conditioning the hand. I think if you just hit makiwara to build callouses and deaden nerves you aren't getting the full benefit. As you hit the plank and try to drive through the plank begins to flex but also pushes back giving a level of resistance training that would be similar to a resistance band or even the weight of a heavy bag pushing back as well.

I think this depends on the type of makiwara. I've seen at least 4 distinct styles, ranging from boards meant to be be mounted or held, posts without much give, standing boards with some give, but a lot of spring-back (so penetrating actually sent a lot of energy into the shoulder), to standing boards you could reasonably deliver penetration power to. The last two looked very similar to me, but felt dramatically different.

 

[Alan0354]

Makiwara is one thing I never tried. I saw it the picture long time ago how they make it. I always wonder what is that for.

Hell, a lot of schools I went to check out didn't even have a heavy bag!!! Big part of the reason I joined the TKD school was because it had a heavy bag hanging in a separate room. That's the one I went there 3 hours before class and worked on. Seems like a lot of schools don't believe in hitting bags or anything.