TKD school - sparring optional?

[tinker1]

A neighbor trains at a local TKD chain "Taekwondo Center", run by GM Sang Lee. So we discuss TKD from time to time.. his kids go there too.

Recently he told me that neither he or his kids spar, and yet they are preparing for their first Dan test. He said sparring is optional.

Maybe I'm old fashioned, but I just don't see how you can progress in the martial arts without sparring. Sure, you can learn the techniques and the forms - but without practice on a partner that's working against you, I don't see how anyone can develop any practical application experience.

He also said they don't learn much about self defense.

So... is this the way TKD schools are run these days?

 

[Manny]

I think sparring must not be optional, the students must do sparr regulary, so sparring must be a PART of the TKD program as MUST BE self defense.

No matter the student is super foot wallace or just mom's boy the student has to sparr.

In my dojang every friday is sparring night, the students do a ver good warm up and then proced to do kicking drills to finish with kyorugi, round robin is the norm.

Learning/training TKD without sparring is like training soccer and never get inside the field for a soccer match/game.

Manny

 

[terryl965]

Not at my school, except if they have a medical reason not to spar and have full contact/

 

[msmitht]

Interesting...
Its like Learning addition, subtraction and multiplication without division. Or only learning a-p in the alphabet.
I understand why some schools do it. Many will not train if there is contact involved. They can still train at my school. They just can not get past green belt

 

[rlobrecht]

We start sparring at yellow belt. It's not optional, although I've never heard a parent question it.

 

[dancingalone]

At least they're honest about it. I've heard of some TKD schools that have no-contact sparring which I think is even worse than not sparring at all.

You can do a lot of precision and timing drills with bag work and paddle/pad drills, but still....

 

[sfs982000]

I would have to agree that it has to be mandatory to spar at some point, even if it's kept a light contact for the younger kids. It's an essential part of learning martial arts and shouldn't be optional. If a student opts out of sparring they're not getting the full training experience they need to grow into the martial arts.

 

[Gemini]

Sparring is not optional. Period.

I've heard of some TKD schools that have no-contact sparring which I think is even worse than not sparring at all.

When done correctly, no contact sparring offers definite advantages. However, to your opinion, when done incorrectly, it can cause more harm than good; but that's pretty much true on anything done incorrectly.

 

[dancingalone]

I think it's worse. Why? Mainly because you might build up some confidence that you can move and strike well, yet you never get the real acid test of what happens to your composure when someone nails you back, possibly with a good deal of force.

 

[Namii]

Ours is mandatory. In order to test for green and up we have to spar. I'm a new orange belt so guess what...time to start sparring for me. (Which is fine I'm excited for it.)

 

[Gemini]

I think it's worse. Why? Mainly because you might build up some confidence that you can move and strike well, yet you never get the real acid test of what happens to your composure when someone nails you back, possibly with a good deal of force.

True, if you train exclusively in no contact, I agree. Examples you've mentioned do require physical contact and knowing those limitations are essential to knowing one's abilities and limitations. At the same time, not all lessons are based around physical tolerance. In fact, it may even prove detrimental to certain lessons. Additionally, the human body can only take so much pounding regardless of what tolerance of pain you achieve. Why inflict punishment into lessons that don't benefit from it.

 

[MaxiMe]

Ours is mandatory. In order to test for green and up we have to spar. I'm a new orange belt so guess what...time to start sparring for me. (Which is fine I'm excited for it.)

We usualy start our sparring 2-3 belts in After that. Who can say no. To a fun therapy session.

Good luck and just keep moving/angleing.

 

[dancingalone]

Why inflict punishment into lessons that don't benefit from it.

I don't disagree with this statement. All things have their proper place... and correct time.

That said, I think non-contact sparring is a very low ROI activity. I'd much rather be doing partner pad and focus mitt work if we don't want to be hitting each other.

 

[puunui]

So... is this the way TKD schools are run these days?

It has been moving in this direction for quite a long time now. Instructors have discovered that students tend to stay longer if there is no sparring involved. Students do Taekwondo or other martial arts now for reasons other than "self defense" or competition. Discovering that niche is I think one of the keys to having a very successful martial arts business.

 

[tinker1]

What baffles me is that this is GM Sang Lee's school... he's pretty tied into the WTF and Olympic style competition.. so this just really seems strange to me.

GM Sang Lee

 

[puunui]

What baffles me is that this is GM Sang Lee's school... he's pretty tied into the WTF and Olympic style competition.. so this just really seems strange to me.
GM Sang Lee

People evolve, including and especially President Sang Lee. I can tell you that his values have not changed, respect is still one of the most important concepts to him in the martial arts, but he has changed with the times on other things.

 

[chrispillertkd]

A neighbor trains at a local TKD chain "Taekwondo Center", run by GM Sang Lee. So we discuss TKD from time to time.. his kids go there too.

Recently he told me that neither he or his kids spar, and yet they are preparing for their first Dan test. He said sparring is optional.

I have never heard of this from a Taekwon-Do school. In fact, I've never heard of it from any MA school which teaches a style that includes free sparring in its curriculum (I am assiming you mean free sparring and not pre-arranged sparring such as 3-, 2- and 1-step sparring).

Maybe I'm old fashioned, but I just don't see how you can progress in the martial arts without sparring. Sure, you can learn the techniques and the forms - but without practice on a partner that's working against you, I don't see how anyone can develop any practical application experience.

Well, that would depend on the martial art, really. I think there are many very valuable skills to be learned from free sparring. At the same time, it can really only be entered into with a great deal of limitations placed upon the practitioners. It is by no means an equivalent of self-defense training, although it (like all aspects of training) certainly develops skills that can apply to self-defense training.

There are, however, martial arts that do not include free sparring in their curriculum. Most if not all of the Japanese koryu, for instance, include no equivalent of free sparring in their training. And yet these arts were specifically developed to impart effective combat skills (and have done so throughout there history). Granted the aim of these and more modern systems such as Taekwon-Do, as well as the combat methods they use, are different.

He also said they don't learn much about self defense.

Eh, this is less surprising.

So... is this the way TKD schools are run these days?

That would depend on many things and what you mean by "TKD schools ... these days." In my experience, no. No ITF school I am familiar with allows students the "option" of free sparring. They could exist, I suppose, but I don't know about them.

Pax,

Chris

 

[Earl Weiss]

I believe in no sparring training. In fact my schedule has that right after my swimming lessons where we never go in the water. But I bet if we ever get wet we'll be really great swimmers!

 

[puunui]

I have never heard of this from a Taekwon-Do school. In fact, I've never heard of it from any MA school which teaches a style that includes free sparring in its curriculum (I am assiming you mean free sparring and not pre-arranged sparring such as 3-, 2- and 1-step sparring).

In a bad economy, President Lee's 29 year old son, who basically runs the three dojang owned by his father, just bought a brand new, 5 or 6 bedroom house for about a half million. He did it by having over a thousand students. They also own at least two of the three buildings in which the dojang are located. I seriously don't think they care if you haven't heard of a school with optional or no free sparring. It's the way martial arts are going in the United States. It's the way martial arts has been going in the United States for a long time now. The days of paying $50 a month to train in a carpeted warehouse is over.

What kind of house did you own when you were 29, and how many students did you have?

 

[ralphmcpherson]

For us sparring is compulsory and a grading requirement from 7th gup on. I came to tkd from a karate background where we did no sparring. After 6 months in tkd I felt I was going great, my kicks seemed fast and accurate, my hands were moving well and my footwork felt great. Then I sparred full contact for the first time. Massive reality check.