TKD or "babysitting"

[TKDmel]

I took my grand-daughter to class yesterday and even though I and her father attend the same school, I am a bit dismayed at the curriculum that is being (can't say taught) conducted. It happens that our school has an after school program where the kids are picked up at the respective grade schools and brought to the dojang to be "entertained". I watched as the children were allowed to run amok. By this I mean that some didn't want to do excercises, some were talking constantly during warm-ups, running around, etc. The instructor was in the dressing room changing. When she came out, they played "dodgeball" the rest of the class. This is a routine class for the children. Since I am not her father, I suggested to my son he speak to the school owner and explain that he is paying to have his daughter taught TKD not gym class, and that if he isn't getting what he is paying for, then he should find some other school to attend.

I have also watched as a 3 y/o in class, started crying, called for his mommy, and no longer wanted to be there. Why do some schools seem to put the "almighty dollar" over the real needs of students? Why can't these school owners be honest with prospective student's parents and let them know their child is just not ready to take TKD? JMHO

 

[exile]

Why do some schools seem to put the "almighty dollar" over the real needs of students?

Your question contains its own answer, unfortanately, TKDM...

 

[IcemanSK]

It also seems as though you have decided that that isn't something worthwhile for you. So, why are you there?

 

[Drac]

Why do some schools seem to put the "almighty dollar" over the real needs of students? Why can't these school owners be honest with prospective student's parents and let them know their child is just not ready to take TKD? JMHO

Your question contains its own answer, unfortanately, TKDM...

Yep...

 

[TKDmel]

It also seems as though you have decided that that isn't something worthwhile for you. So, why are you there?

Iceman, I truely wish I had other options. There are no other TKD schools within 50 miles and I love TKD enough not to quit. My goal is to hopefully pass my 2nd dan in May (if they let me test this time) and start my own very small school through a community center or at the nearby church gym if possible. I've also taken a great interest in hapkido, but again, no schools here. As far as the adult classes are concerned, I am going to speak to the owner/instructor on Mon. about my concerns for my training to get ready for my test. The classes up to now have dealt almost totally with lower belt curriculum. I've mentioned my concerns in passing and have gotten nowhere, so I may have to be more addement about getting the instruction I'm paying for as well.

 

[bushidomartialarts]

after school programs can ruin a studio. my school has an after school program and it's a struggle at times.

one of the biggest challenges is that the kids become familiar. the dojo is no longer the place you go for one hour twice a week and the sensei is no longer this huge, mysterious presence. both the place and the person become something you spend hours with every day.

the awe disappears, and certain behavior issues pop up that you'd never expect to see at karate.

there are ways to structure an after school program that help with that issue, and other ways to structure the program so that traditional students don't have their experience ruined. but it takes effort.

perhaps you could offer to help your instructor make that effort.

in terms of the three year old, that's just silly. we tried 3 year olds for 6 months and won't be doing that again any time soon.

 

[terryl965]

It can be done with success but it is hard work and making the childern understand that it is a place of respect and workout at all times.

 

[TKDmel]

It can be done with success but it is hard work and making the childern understand that it is a place of respect and workout at all times.

Very hard work, indeed! I try to instill respect and discipline, but if I am the only one doing it, its an uphill battle all the way.

 

[TKDmel]

after school programs can ruin a studio. my school has an after school program and it's a struggle at times.

one of the biggest challenges is that the kids become familiar. the dojo is no longer the place you go for one hour twice a week and the sensei is no longer this huge, mysterious presence. both the place and the person become something you spend hours with every day.

the awe disappears, and certain behavior issues pop up that you'd never expect to see at karate.

there are ways to structure an after school program that help with that issue, and other ways to structure the program so that traditional students don't have their experience ruined. but it takes effort.

perhaps you could offer to help your instructor make that effort.

in terms of the three year old, that's just silly. we tried 3 year olds for 6 months and won't be doing that again any time soon.

I totally agree!!!!

 

[bluemtn]

Very hard work, indeed! I try to instill respect and discipline, but if I am the only one doing it, its an uphill battle all the way.

Yes, it is an uphill battle. I wonder how my instructors do it sometimes. I've seen the kids act really well in class some days, and others, it's a real chore.

 

[Laurentkd]

We have had the same problems with an all day summer program we ran. We thought these kids would be awesome because they were taking 2 classes a day all summer. But like Bushido said, all the hanging out at the dojang in between classes is what ruined them. They became too familiar with the instructors and the training area itself and a lot of the respect and the general attitude towards both the dojang and the instructors was lost. We have since stopped the program and worked hard to "re-learn" these kids. We decided that all the additional income (and it was a lot) just wasn't worth the results with these students.

We have thought about doing a seperate program that wouldn't involve our regular kids. But then what do you do when those kids think they want to join the regular program? I would be really interested to know how anyone has run a successful after school or summer program without losing the right environment.

We also do a 4, 5, and 6 year old class, which we call "pre-taekwondo." We tell the parents up front that it is really more of a basic gross and fine motor skills class (some kicking and punching, but a lot of running and jumping, etc. they also learn how to stand still, listen, stand in line, take turns, say yes sir, and other good overall life skills for little kids). We do a half hour twice a week. It's a fun class to teach and we have found that once these kids are old enough to be in the real class they do really well since they are already used to the environment and the instructors.

 

[bushidomartialarts]

I would be really interested to know how anyone has run a successful after school or summer program without losing the right environment.

we have had some success with this. not 100%, but i've been steering this battleship for a few years and feel we're at least headed in the right direction. here are some of the things we've done.

rule 1: no down time. every minute of the day has a specific activity planned. sometimes that planned activity is a short break for reading or lunch, but there's never any opportunity to just 'hang out'.

rule 2: frequent changes of activity. none of our classes are shorter than 1/2 an hour. anything longer gives them a chance to get bored.

rule 3: have a 'bad cop'. keep one instructor distant and a little scary. familiarity is the biggest enemy an after school/summer camp has. keep one staff member away from the daily grind so you have somebody they still feel awe for.

rule 4: keep the training floor sacrosanct. students only enter the main training area to train. we never play dodge ball or hang out in that space.

those are the basics of what i've figured out. there are of course other things, but this is a good start.

 

[matt.m]

When we had kids as white belts we would let them jump targets or rope for the last 5 minutes of class. If they were good then it was a reward, if not then they lost the privilege. These are 7 and 8 yr old kids. Now a year later that they are yellow/orange belt we told them......we need to work more on this or that drill, you are not white belts anymore so you don't need to do these games.

The BB's have been great, they pair the kids with adults for class work etc. The kids are expected to call the adult sir or ma'am. Doesn't matter if they are BB or not. The 1st time a kid wised off to me the GM said, "Matt has his dan in judo, so you call him and all adults sir or ma'am."

For infractions we have time out or hot box......this is the same....sit on the bench for 5 minutes stuff.

After about two weeks of nonsense the kids started self-regulating themselves and the problems became much much less.

 

[Laurentkd]

we have had some success with this. not 100%, but i've been steering this battleship for a few years and feel we're at least headed in the right direction. here are some of the things we've done.

rule 1: no down time. every minute of the day has a specific activity planned. sometimes that planned activity is a short break for reading or lunch, but there's never any opportunity to just 'hang out'.

rule 2: frequent changes of activity. none of our classes are shorter than 1/2 an hour. anything longer gives them a chance to get bored.

rule 3: have a 'bad cop'. keep one instructor distant and a little scary. familiarity is the biggest enemy an after school/summer camp has. keep one staff member away from the daily grind so you have somebody they still feel awe for.

rule 4: keep the training floor sacrosanct. students only enter the main training area to train. we never play dodge ball or hang out in that space.

those are the basics of what i've figured out. there are of course other things, but this is a good start.

Thanks! I thinks these are some really good guidelines. I really like #3, I think that would make a big difference. In the past it was always the master and myself (the top instructor) running the program. In the future maybe having a couple lower ranked Black Belts run the program would be a better idea--- keep us "big dogs" still scary!!