TKD is Weak on the street as a self defense?

[drop bear]

Ok, thanks for the clarification.

QUOTE="skribs, post: 1875451, member: 31615"]
Experience can be the difference between "that punch came out of nowhere" and seeing the same punch coming miles away.

Perhaps, but I would say experience in regard to SD would mean you strike preemptively. if you are waiting to the point where they are throwing pucnehs then your SD skills are severally lacking.[/QUOTE]

You can't just say everything has to be done your way because self defence.

And not just because it is one big reason not to take self defence instruction seriously.

So what happens if he was just asking for the time?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

You can't just say everything has to be done your way because self defence.

And not just because it is one big reason not to take self defence instruction seriously.

So what happens if he was just asking for the time?

Agreed. I'd love to hit first in every SD situation. But to do that, I'd have to deal with a certain number of "false positives". Cops don't use that term, though, they call it something like "assault".

 

[drop bear]

Go to the local bowling alley, rent some bowling shoes, and start practicing your kicks on a lane. You’ll probably get several minutes of practice in, then you’d get some time to actually use those skills. It’s a win-win. Unless of course the employee calls for some backup. Then again, you’ll get some multiple attacker training in too.

I have slipped over in the gym. Where do these people get these perfect training environments?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I have slipped over in the gym. Where do these people get these perfect training environments?

We've all slipped in the training environment. I slip a lot more on grass (even dry) and gravel.

 

[drop bear]

Agreed. I'd love to hit first in every SD situation. But to do that, I'd have to deal with a certain number of "false positives". Cops don't use that term, though, they call it something like "assault".

And if you want to mess with a guy who has all his plans built around a preemptive strike.

Hang back and use range and footwork. Wait until they get desperate and let them walk in to your shot.

 

[drop bear]

We've all slipped in the training environment. I slip a lot more on grass (even dry) and gravel.

So where does the "you could slip over" argument apply?

I can slip over in training. I can slip over in a fight. Some surfaces are slippery.

You are getting to a fairly advanced form of self defence tactics where picking and choosing your ground in that manner makes the difference.

And I think it is a big nuanced system that could quite honestly be better spent learning to break skulls with your fist. Just from a bang for buck point of view.

(By the way I have done it. Not run into traffic after a guy. Fighting people in choke points. Waiting until I am on grass before I take people down. But they are not these massive fight changers.)

 

[JR 137]

I have slipped over in the gym. Where do these people get these perfect training environments?

Beats the hell out of me. I’m looking for that perfect training environment too. Hopefully we all go to that great dojo in the sky when it’s our time. Until then, I keep looking.

 

[drop bear]

Beats the hell out of me. I’m looking for that perfect training environment too. Hopefully we all go to that great dojo in the sky when it’s our time. Until then, I keep looking.

At least until then when I have to dodge the fan while sparring or be careful I don't get thrown out a first story window.

I am at least learning applicable street.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

So where does the "you could slip over" argument apply?

I can slip over in training. I can slip over in a fight. Some surfaces are slippery.

You are getting to a fairly advanced form of self defence tactics where picking and choosing your ground in that manner makes the difference.

And I think it is a big nuanced system that could quite honestly be better spent learning to break skulls with your fist. Just from a bang for buck point of view.

(By the way I have done it. Not run into traffic after a guy. Fighting people in choke points. Waiting until I am on grass before I take people down. But they are not these massive fight changers.)

It's about percentages, not absolutes. There are things I won't try when my knee is being particularly bitchy. There are things I won't try when I'm training on hard floors. There are things I won't try on uneven or slippery surfaces. I could do all of those things in those situations, but their reliability goes way down or their trade-off changes.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

or be careful I don't get thrown out a first story window.

This is less scary in the US - we count from the ground floor. Still a defenestration in any case, but less falling.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

(By the way I have done it. Not run into traffic after a guy. Fighting people in choke points. Waiting until I am on grass before I take people down. But they are not these massive fight changers.)

I missed this part. Agreed, they are not massive game changers. But a lot of folks don't actually think about them - moreso than I'd have expected. Many students don't stop throws if they are about to throw someone off the mats or into a wall unless someone yells at them. For some reason, it takes some people a lot of time to develop that situational awareness. That's why we focus on it in SD training.

 

[skribs]

So where does the "you could slip over" argument apply?

I can slip over in training. I can slip over in a fight. Some surfaces are slippery.

You are getting to a fairly advanced form of self defence tactics where picking and choosing your ground in that manner makes the difference.

And I think it is a big nuanced system that could quite honestly be better spent learning to break skulls with your fist. Just from a bang for buck point of view.

(By the way I have done it. Not run into traffic after a guy. Fighting people in choke points. Waiting until I am on grass before I take people down. But they are not these massive fight changers.)

It's not about picking where you fight. It's about picking techniques based on where you fight.

As far as "you could slip", if I threw you two footballs, one dry and the other coated in cattle birthing agent, which one are you more likely to catch? I mean, you can drop the dry one, so you must have an equal chance of catching them, right?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

coated in cattle birthing agent

What the hell???

 

[skribs]

What the hell???

On an episode of mythbusters they were testing how slippery banana peels are (i.e. the myth that if you step on a banana peel you would slip). So they did an agility course with the slippery variable being a control run (nothing slippery on the track), a run with hundreds of banana peels, and a run with cattle birthing agent. Jamie goes "I just happen to have some cattle birthing agent lying around, so we'll use that."

 

[Gerry Seymour]

On an episode of mythbusters they were testing how slippery banana peels are (i.e. the myth that if you step on a banana peel you would slip). So they did an agility course with the slippery variable being a control run (nothing slippery on the track), a run with hundreds of banana peels, and a run with cattle birthing agent. Jamie goes "I just happen to have some cattle birthing agent lying around, so we'll use that."

Not something most of us ever get to say.

 

[skribs]

I think it was somewhat tongue-in-cheek.

 

[drop bear]

It's not about picking where you fight. It's about picking techniques based on where you fight.

As far as "you could slip", if I threw you two footballs, one dry and the other coated in cattle birthing agent, which one are you more likely to catch? I mean, you can drop the dry one, so you must have an equal chance of catching them, right?

Does my technique change for each ball?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Does my technique change for each ball?

No, but your decision about what to do with each might. If I know a ball is greased, I'd be less likely to try to catch it, more likely to let it hit the ground and smother it there. I'd be less likely to run with it (too easy to fumble), and more likely to take a knee as soon as I have it. I'd be less likely to try to field it if it looks like it's going out of bounds or will go into the end zone for a touchback. Technique doesn't change, but tactics (including which techniques I use) does.

 

[drop bear]

No, but your decision about what to do with each might. If I know a ball is greased, I'd be less likely to try to catch it, more likely to let it hit the ground and smother it there. I'd be less likely to run with it (too easy to fumble), and more likely to take a knee as soon as I have it. I'd be less likely to try to field it if it looks like it's going out of bounds or will go into the end zone for a touchback. Technique doesn't change, but tactics (including which techniques I use) does.

Which comes back to this mental elasticity thing I was trying to suggest in another thread.

Unfortunately I think street sport differences as it is generally discussed is the reverse of this.

 

[drop bear]

I missed this part. Agreed, they are not massive game changers. But a lot of folks don't actually think about them - moreso than I'd have expected. Many students don't stop throws if they are about to throw someone off the mats or into a wall unless someone yells at them. For some reason, it takes some people a lot of time to develop that situational awareness. That's why we focus on it in SD training.

In sport that would be called ring craft.

But situational concerns pretty much are the primary differences in the street sport debate.