TKD guy???

[Steve]

It is taught by my Wado instructors who had a direct line from Ohtsuka Sensei, their instructor was taught by him. However it is a kick that instructors need to be able to do to teach if they can't I imagine it's not taught.

Steve I di mention Micheals's show boating etc, perhaps I'll suggest we match him on one of our shows but with someone with very good all round skills. His coaches are honest so wouldn't turn down a match just because he might get beaten, I imagine though knowing them they will have already beaten him themselves. London shoot is not a place for arrogance.

While I said I wouldn't want to watch him fight again, I'll make an exception if you find a good match for him. Get video and let me know.

 

[puunui]

I can surely find some Karate Systems which most certainly do, since Wado Ryu is not representative of every form of Karate, much like how the KKW WTF is not representative of all TKD.

Not all, just most of taekwondo.

 

[Tez3]

We don't want yet another thread of the TKD factions arguing thank you. This may be in the TKD section but the OP is about something different.

 

[dancingalone]

It is taught by my Wado instructors who had a direct line from Ohtsuka Sensei, their instructor was taught by him. However it is a kick that instructors need to be able to do to teach if they can't I imagine it's not taught.

The United States Eastern Wado-Ryu Karate Federation is arguably a very orthodox Wado group. The founder, Cecil Patterson, was promoted by Ohtsuka Sensei to godan and he was asked to form an American organization to cooperate and work with the Hombu in Japan. Even after Ohtsuka's passing, the USEWRKF has stayed at home and they acknowledge Hironori Ohtsuka II's leadership.

Not that it really matters, but this kick was on your formal list of requirements for a specific rank? Not just a hey, let's horse around or even I like this, so let's practice it? I'd honestly be shocked if this was something Ohtsuka Sensei taught. I'm somewhat of a collector of karate books & curricula, and this particular kick just isn't something that appears in the annals for Wado or indeed most karate styles in general.

 

[puunui]

We don't want yet another thread of the TKD factions arguing thank you. This may be in the TKD section but the OP is about something different.

And yet, you feel free to talk about off topic stuff in this very thread. If you wish the discussion to stay on topic, then I would suggest you lead by example.

It is taught by my Wado instructors who had a direct line from Ohtsuka Sensei, their instructor was taught by him. However it is a kick that instructors need to be able to do to teach if they can't I imagine it's not taught.

Steve I di mention Micheals's show boating etc, perhaps I'll suggest we match him on one of our shows but with someone with very good all round skills. His coaches are honest so wouldn't turn down a match just because he might get beaten, I imagine though knowing them they will have already beaten him themselves. London shoot is not a place for arrogance.

 

[Tez3]

And yet, you feel free to talk about off topic stuff in this very thread. If you wish the discussion to stay on topic, then I would suggest you lead by example.

ROFL my comments on this thread are very much ON topic, just because you don't agree with them doesn't make them off topic.


Dancingalone, yes it was on the syllabus for grading. third brown belt as I remember, way back when I was young lol! Okay..younger. It's jumping spinning roundhouse. I did find this on a quick look on You Tube, I like the comment someone put on "why did you shift your right leg to the back? I'm sorry if I'm a bit rude, but your speed doesn't match your body. I mean, you're way too fast..."
Perhaps I should try it again lol! TBh it does look as if the pair shouldn't be doing any sort of jumpin or spinning!

Someone does comment that they think it's a tornado kick, I haven't had time to look at anymore videos, this one tickled me though.

 

[puunui]

ROFL my comments on this thread are very much ON topic, just because you don't agree with them doesn't make them off topic.

Suit yourself, just as long as you realize what standard you have set for yourself (no off topic posts).

 

[Cyriacus]

Not all, just most of taekwondo.

Thanks for giving Me the excuse Ive been looking for to say this:

Lets say we took every single TKD Organisation and Outlet that isnt a part of the KKW, Independant and ITF and GTF and ATA and Jhoon Rhee and so forth.

Then My question is, does the KKW have more Members and Outlets than all of them, combined?

On another note, in This Country, KKW WTF Dojangs are most definitely not the Majority.

I like trivia.

As do I

It would be one of the newer groups/styles no doubt if such a kick is actually expressed as a formal requirement. Definitely not in Goju-ryu, not in Uechi-Ryu, not in Isshin-ryu, not in Matsubayashi-ryu, not in Seibukan, not in Kobayashi, not in Itosu-kai, not in Shukokai, not in JKS Shotokan, not in JKA Shotokan, not in Shotokai... Hey, I'm seeing a trend.

Aye
First, a serious comment: Im pretty sure Karate does have a 540 Jump Spin Crescent. Ill let someone else name it, I dont speak Karate.
Not so seriously: [WARNING: The following should not be used to generate further discussion. Highlight it at the risk of melting your brain and causing yourself to go into a downward spiral of debating things that have already been pointlessly debated] Well apparently TKD is meant to be a modified copy of Karate, so theres that.

ROFL my comments on this thread are very much ON topic, just because you don't agree with them doesn't make them off topic.


Dancingalone, yes it was on the syllabus for grading. third brown belt as I remember, way back when I was young lol! Okay..younger. It's jumping spinning roundhouse. I did find this on a quick look on You Tube, I like the comment someone put on "why did you shift your right leg to the back? I'm sorry if I'm a bit rude, but your speed doesn't match your body. I mean, you're way too fast..."
Perhaps I should try it again lol! TBh it does look as if the pair shouldn't be doing any sort of jumpin or spinning!

Someone does comment that they think it's a tornado kick, I haven't had time to look at anymore videos, this one tickled me though.

I dont call that being fast, I call it being relaxed. Big, big difference.

 

[chrispillertkd]

Regarding the OP, no one's mentioned this yet, or maybe I missed it, but was anyone else really bothered by the arrogance of the guy who executed the kick? The hands down, clowning around he did took his opponent out of his gameplan and obviously confused him, but man, it did nothing for me as a fan. I'd never voluntarily watch that guy in another fight, and as an athlete in a spectator sport, that's not a good thing.

Couldn't agree more. I could barely make it to the point of the video where he KO's the other fighter.

Pax,

Chris

 

[dancingalone]

Lets say we took every single TKD Organisation and Outlet that isnt a part of the KKW, Independant and ITF and GTF and ATA and Jhoon Rhee and so forth.

Then My question is, does the KKW have more Members and Outlets than all of them, combined?

I'm honestly curious myself. I have a suspicion that in the US, the combined population of NON-KKW and NON-ITF practitioners would dwarf those two groups put together. If you want to narrow the definition of independent to only single schools or small clusters of schools under a single owner, it might get dicier, but I might still think they still might have the largest numbers. We can get rough ideas by Googling taekwondo, Taekwon-Do and Tae Kwon Do schools in conjunction with bands of postal codes, at least in the US and in Canada. We'd be missing out on the schools that have no internet presence though.

First, a serious comment: Im pretty sure Karate does have a 540 Jump Spin Crescent. Ill let someone else name it, I dont speak Karate.

Schools that are heavily into XMA will have stuff like that, but it's generally not part of the 'official' curriculum. The narabang kick we've been discussing is really a TKD deal although some Chinese wushu styles obviously have it too. It is not a part of traditional karate either Okinawan or Japanese. Any school that has added it probably picked it up through intermixing with Korean styles or for tournament purposes.

Now if we start scaling it back down to things like hook kicks and such, yes, those kinds of kicks are found in karate on official syllabi.

 

[Cyriacus]

Schools that are heavily into XMA will have stuff like that, but it's generally not part of the 'official' curriculum. The narabang kick we've been discussing is really a TKD deal although some Chinese wushu styles obviously have it too. It is not a part of traditional karate either Okinawan or Japanese. Any school that has added it probably picked it up through intermixing with Korean styles or for tournament purposes.

Now if we start scaling it back down to things like hook kicks and such, yes, those kinds of kicks are found in karate on official syllabi.

Interestingly (Ok, not very interesting), We dont do any 540 Kicks. Or, any more than 360 really.
*nods

I'm honestly curious myself. I have a suspicion that in the US, the combined population of NON-KKW and NON-ITF practitioners would dwarf those two groups put together. If you want to narrow the definition of independent to only single schools or small clusters of schools under a single owner, it might get dicier, but I might still think they still might have the largest numbers. We can get rough ideas by Googling taekwondo, Taekwon-Do and Tae Kwon Do schools in conjunction with bands of postal codes, at least in the US and in Canada. We'd be missing out on the schools that have no internet presence though.

Yep.

 

[puunui]

Lets say we took every single TKD Organisation and Outlet that isnt a part of the KKW, Independant and ITF and GTF and ATA and Jhoon Rhee and so forth. Then My question is, does the KKW have more Members and Outlets than all of them, combined? On another note, in This Country, KKW WTF Dojangs are most definitely not the Majority.

In the US, definitely there are more Kukkiwon instructors than not. Not everyone gives out Kukkiwon certification though, and there may be pockets where other groups may have bigger numbers. But overall, I would say Kukkiwon certified instructors have the commanding lead. For one thing, there is the sheer number of instructors that have been continuously migrating from Korea to the US. Thousands. Tens of thousands. There is no way these independent groups can compare is number to kukki taekwondo members. Take ITF for example, I want to say that their 1st Dan numbers in the US over their entire history was not even 10,000, while Kukkiwon certified instructor do more than that in a single year.

 

[Cyriacus]

In the US, definitely there are more Kukkiwon instructors than not. Not everyone gives out Kukkiwon certification though, and there may be pockets where other groups may have bigger numbers. But overall, I would say Kukkiwon certified instructors have the commanding lead. For one thing, there is the sheer number of instructors that have been continuously migrating from Korea to the US. Thousands. Tens of thousands. There is no way these independent groups can compare is number to kukki taekwondo members. Take ITF for example, I want to say that their 1st Dan numbers in the US over their entire history was not even 10,000, while Kukkiwon certified instructor do more than that in a single year.

Ill believe that - From what Ive seen, the KKW seems to have them nicely under wraps.\
That said, for there to be 10,000 KKW Black Belts being added every Year, that makes for a 100,000 Increase every Decade. Does that mean that since 2000, there have been 100,000 more Black Belts across the Country, as oppose to the proposed 10,000 by the ITF in its whole History?
Additionally, which ITF?
And what of Independant and Singular Schools, and the GTF, ATA, and whatnot?

As a side note, I will add for the benefit of anyone who may take things out of context, that delving in is the best way to find answers with these things. Im not being skeptical.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

Ill believe that - From what Ive seen, the KKW seems to have them nicely under wraps.\
That said, for there to be 10,000 KKW Black Belts being added every Year, that makes for a 100,000 Increase every Decade. Does that mean that since 2000, there have been 100,000 more Black Belts across the Country, as oppose to the proposed 10,000 by the ITF in its whole History?
Additionally, which ITF?
And what of Independant and Singular Schools, and the GTF, ATA, and whatnot?

As a side note, I will add for the benefit of anyone who may take things out of context, that delving in is the best way to find answers with these things. Im not being skeptical.

It will always be impossible to know exact numbers for sure, but if you lined up every single tkdist on planet earth from every single country and city imaginable and said " all kukkiwon students take a step forward", I strongly doubt that "most" of the tkdists would step forward. I think its a huge call to suggest that "most tkdists are kukkiwon tkdists". As you said earlier, its certainly not the case in this country, actually if all the students from just my club and cyriacius's club were combined they would out number all kukkiwon students in this country put together, and Im only talking about 2 independent clubs out of many many independent clubs, and thats before you start to include itf clubs. I imagine there are many other countries where this is also the case. This would actually make an interesting thread on its own.

 

[Cyriacus]

It will always be impossible to know exact numbers for sure, but if you lined up every single tkdist on planet earth from every single country and city imaginable and said " all kukkiwon students take a step forward", I strongly doubt that "most" of the tkdists would step forward. I think its a huge call to suggest that "most tkdists are kukkiwon tkdists". As you said earlier, its certainly not the case in this country, actually if all the students from just my club and cyriacius's club were combined they would out number all kukkiwon students in this country put together, and Im only talking about 2 independent clubs out of many many independent clubs, and thats before you start to include itf clubs. I imagine there are many other countries where this is also the case. this would actually make an interesting thread on its own.

Ill just step in quickly and verify this, since I imagine some people may be a bit bitsy

 

[puunui]

Ill believe that - From what Ive seen, the KKW seems to have them nicely under wraps.\
That said, for there to be 10,000 KKW Black Belts being added every Year, that makes for a 100,000 Increase every Decade. Does that mean that since 2000, there have been 100,000 more Black Belts across the Country, as oppose to the proposed 10,000 by the ITF in its whole History?

In the US, yes. Those are the numbers, and they are growing as more and more instructors reach kukkiwon 4th dan and higher. We aren't even counting dojang that have Kukkiwon certified instructors who continue to seek out kukkiwon certification for themselves, but issue their own certification to their students. But I notice that the younger instructors, in addition to wanting to be current with the kukkiwon standards, are also giving out kukkiwon certification to their students, unlike perhaps their instructors. The fact that these young instructors did not get kukkiwon or it wasn't automatically given to them may have left a bad taste in their mouths, and now that they themselves are instructors, want to change things and do the right thing so to speak, so what happened to them doesn't happen to their students.

Additionally, which ITF?

I was going with the original one under General Choi. I remember seeing a ITF dan certificate in the 8000s not that far back.

And what of Independant and Singular Schools, and the GTF, ATA, and whatnot?

Don't know about them. But again, there is no way that they can outnumber kukkiwon dojang. All you have to do is look at the martial arts supply companies and what they offer. You can get kukkiwon flags, patches, kukki taekwondo calligraphy by President Park, v neck dobok, paddles, wtf sparring equipment, puzzle mats, plaques, plates, dvd, books, whatever you want to be an official looking kukkiwon or wtf dojang. I don't see too much if at all for the other organizations.

 

[puunui]

Ill just step in quickly and verify this, since I imagine some people may be a bit bitsy

I don't know what the situation is in Australia, I understand that there is a fight currently between STA and TA, but here is a list of clubs for Taekwondo Australia, which used to be the WTF Member National Association there. Lots of clubs, some look really large.

http://www.taekwondoaustralia.com.au/find_a_club.php

 

[Cyriacus]

In the US, yes. Those are the numbers, and they are growing as more and more instructors reach kukkiwon 4th dan and higher. We aren't even counting dojang that have Kukkiwon certified instructors who continue to seek out kukkiwon certification for themselves, but issue their own certification to their students. But I notice that the younger instructors, in addition to wanting to be current with the kukkiwon standards, are also giving out kukkiwon certification to their students, unlike perhaps their instructors. The fact that these young instructors did not get kukkiwon or it wasn't automatically given to them may have left a bad taste in their mouths, and now that they themselves are instructors, want to change things and do the right thing so to speak, so what happened to them doesn't happen to their students.

Good to know

I was going with the original one under General Choi. I remember seeing a ITF dan certificate in the 8000s not that far back.

*nods

Don't know about them. But again, there is no way that they can outnumber kukkiwon dojang. All you have to do is look at the martial arts supply companies and what they offer. You can get kukkiwon flags, patches, kukki taekwondo calligraphy by President Park, v neck dobok, paddles, wtf sparring equipment, puzzle mats, plaques, plates, dvd, books, whatever you want to be an official looking kukkiwon or wtf dojang. I don't see too much if at all for the other organizations.

Which could as easily be because ITF Dojangs tend to have their own Sub-Flags, rather than a universal one; And that most other Organisations Gear is limited to foam gloves and shoes. Furthermore, Im pretty sure the ITF doesnt allow You to choose from a variety of Dobok anywere in the world, and just have one preset, except the striped Dobok for Instructors. They dont generally add on patches, either. Save the ones given to them as rewards or acknowledgements. Calligraphy I never even heard mention of when I used to train ITF, I dont know what a Puzzle Mat is (Ok, I probably do. Just not by that name), Plaques are the same as flags; ...Plates? There arent that many DVDs or Books for the ITF and those others to begin with. As such, of course there would be a majority of WTF Equipment.

*nods

 

[ralphmcpherson]

In the US, yes. Those are the numbers, and they are growing as more and more instructors reach kukkiwon 4th dan and higher. We aren't even counting dojang that have Kukkiwon certified instructors who continue to seek out kukkiwon certification for themselves, but issue their own certification to their students. But I notice that the younger instructors, in addition to wanting to be current with the kukkiwon standards, are also giving out kukkiwon certification to their students, unlike perhaps their instructors. The fact that these young instructors did not get kukkiwon or it wasn't automatically given to them may have left a bad taste in their mouths, and now that they themselves are instructors, want to change things and do the right thing so to speak, so what happened to them doesn't happen to their students.




I was going with the original one under General Choi. I remember seeing a ITF dan certificate in the 8000s not that far back.




Don't know about them. But again, there is no way that they can outnumber kukkiwon dojang. All you have to do is look at the martial arts supply companies and what they offer. You can get kukkiwon flags, patches, kukki taekwondo calligraphy by President Park, v neck dobok, paddles, wtf sparring equipment, puzzle mats, plaques, plates, dvd, books, whatever you want to be an official looking kukkiwon or wtf dojang. I don't see too much if at all for the other organizations.

they are impressive numbers, but thats just the USA, Im more interested in world wide numbers. After all, less than 5% of the world's population live in the united states.

 

[puunui]

Which could as easily be because ITF Dojangs tend to have their own Sub-Flags, rather than a universal one; And that most other Organisations Gear is limited to foam gloves and shoes. Furthermore, Im pretty sure the ITF doesnt allow You to choose from a variety of Dobok anywere in the world, and just have one preset, except the striped Dobok for Instructors. They dont generally add on patches, either. Save the ones given to them as rewards or acknowledgements. Calligraphy I never even heard mention of when I used to train ITF, I dont know what a Puzzle Mat is (Ok, I probably do. Just not by that name), Plaques are the same as flags; ...Plates? There arent that many DVDs or Books for the ITF and those others to begin with. As such, of course there would be a majority of WTF Equipment.

That might all be true, except for the fact that in the 45 year history of the ITF in the US, there are about 10,000 1st dan members. No way of getting around that. And a lot of those ITF members in the US have converted to kukkiwon certification. I don't see it being that large outside of the US, perhaps canada, maybe. But China is catching up. Taekwondo schools are sprouting up all over the place there, and someday there may be more kukkiwon poom and dan holders in china that the whole world combined. That place is booming. Trying checking your own martial arts supply houses. Every once in a while Barnes and Noble here sells an australian taekwondo magazine, so it must be bigger than just a couple few very large clubs.