Time to Combat Abuse in On-Line Gaming?

Sukerkin

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I read this article on the BBC and I have to say that I was pretty shocked to hear that male gamers were using this kind of language to female ones and NOT, so it seems, receiving any official response for it:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-18280000

I am not one for overly pandering to PC'ness for its own sake and I acknowledge in certain environments that foul language is going to be heard but what the article is talking about here is very far beyond people swearing on game chat. Can you imagine what the reaction would be if such behaviour took place in a 'real' public space? Or here at Martial Talk?
 

Tez3

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I asked my son about this as he's into playiing, he said the abuse isn't confined to women it's also racial. The American players seem to get very involved and some of the comments made to British and other players is in line with what is quoted on the link. He says he doesn't use the 'talking' bit of it anymore ( my knowledge of this is minimal to say the least)
 

Steve

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What happens is you get kids who are both anonymous and completely unaccountable. I've heard some atrocious behavior online from kids, and i have to believe that they would never say such things in real life (or if their parents were around). My kids play games online, and I'm very proud of them for choosing on their own to avoid the online chatting unless they're in a group they know in real life.
 

oftheherd1

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The times they are a changing!

I agree with you. Probably stronger than you with your comment about not pandering to PC'ness. That is true in general for me, but not in this instance. It just isn't the way I was raised. When I was young, and where I lived, if a man used improper language with a woman around, someone, and probably several someone’s, would simply say 'language' and the offender would immediately stop, probably even apologize; especially if it was inadvertent. If not, someone would be prepared to, and threaten or actually educate the offender. Now it seems many women routinely talk crudely. Granted, perhaps not threateningly as reported in the games.

My guess is that in the game rooms, those who act that way are mostly uneducated, never taught manners, and socially deficient. They cannot hold a decent conversation with women, let alone have a relationship. They then blame the women for that, so try to assuage their supposed manhood by making threats they don't expect to be held accountable for due to being anonymous on the I ‘net. But it sounds so macho to them; they constantly try to make it stronger, glorying in their newfound control. If it weren't so disgusting, you could almost feel sorry for them. But almost only counts in horseshoes and frags.

I hope I am coming across strongly against that sort of behavior. To this day I don't tolerate it in my presence without challenge. But the times they are a changing; I would not likely challenge to a fight, but just to try and educate the person not to do that, and try to make them feel bad otherwise.
 

crushing

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These male gamers seem to be equal opportunity offenders. Should they be more discriminating when it comes to their interactions with those that many consider 'the fairer sex' than they are with other males?
 
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Sukerkin

Sukerkin

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I think perhaps it should be emphasised, Crush, that what is being talked about here is not merely bad manners or foul language, it is sexually threatening language - the sort of thing that, if a woman were so inclined, could get the speaker involved with the police.

Leaving aside the sexual references, it is one thing for some gamer to physically threaten me over game chat (I would be inclined to offer him his choice of swords with which to defend himself); it is quite another for someone to do that to a lass, in a channel in which she may be the only girl.

At the risk of introducing humour into a subject which is not in the least funny, there has been a skit done in which the situation is flipped on it's head ... let me see if I can find and link to it. Please be aware that this clip contains bad language and sexual references but it really gets the point across:

[yt]AQnIJ-ljctk[/yt]
 

crushing

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I think perhaps it should be emphasised, Crush, that what is being talked about here is not merely bad manners or foul language, it is sexually threatening language - the sort of thing that, if a woman were so inclined, could get the speaker involved with the police.

Yes, I understand that. Do you think these bad mannered, foul mouthed, male gamers are using sexually threatening language only towards the females? Personally, I don't get the whole trash talking thing and I certainly am not defending it. I am trying to gain a better understanding of the motiviation for an apparent double standard and if that is acceptable.
 

Tez3

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My son, who's in his thirties and who knows about this far more than I, reckons that the games which involve 'killing' bring out the worst in people. He thinks the adrenaline gets flowing and some people get so far into the 'role' of soldiers etc that they scream abuse at their enemies. As he says it's not confined to abusing women but any who they see as the other side, especially if the other side is winning. A lot he says seem to be white collar types, perhaps letting out the frustration of the working day by killing people? It seems to be people who get too much 'into' the game rather than just playing it as a game, for them it seems to be all too real, hence the anger, screaming and the abuse.
 

WC_lun

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I play online games occasionally, but will turn general chats and voice off because of this kind of behaviour. It certainly isn't limited to sexual abuse either. It is all kinds of rude, and sometimes criminal behaviour, because the offenders feel anonymous. It amazes me how "sorry" they become when they actually suffer some repurcussions to thier behaviour or someone turns the tables on them. Companies like Microsoft really should take action when this type of stuff happens. Most users do not appreciate such nonsense and I can't imagine they aren't losing bussiness because of these jerks.

There is also a common misconception that anything goes because there is "free speach" in gaming. In fact, that is completely wrong. For every online game there is a an agreement that everyone who plays agrees to before they can even play. Every one of them has a minimum code of conduct in those agreements. Add to that, you are using the services of a company and that company can revoke its services. It is similiar to a bar removing an individual from its premises for bad behaviour. Now if those companies would start enforcing its' own rules.
 

granfire

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Hmm, I read an interesting article a while back.

men are not wired for the modern world. (I am sorry, I am really tired and going off on a tangent)

In essence, the nice-nice stuff isn't working for the male of the species.
Video games seem to fill the niche there.

And while women have stepped it up in the foul language department over the past decades, they are still more up on the inter-human relationships (and telling you to go to H*$$, how to get there, and to have a pleasant trip).

In the olden days there were real physical challenges for the men. Including the scratching and spitting, and making noises, and speaking in ways mother would be appalled.

i don't do the shooter games, not in-game chat options when I game.

However, I tend to shoot from the hip when I come across behavior as mentioned in the article.
Too bad that cynicism and sarcasm is most often lost on those fellows.

It seems to me, however, that we have less and less breathing room to be non-conformist. Our little rebellions against what mother demanded and society dictates.

It's kind of like stepping into a military barrack and expecting the soldiers to speak the Queens English and stick their pinkies out as they have High Tea.


More harmful is the suggestion that you can run through a hail of bullets and get up and go home.
That you can cleave a head wide open and when you hit the reset button all is well with the world. Being shot is a mere nuisance, not a painful, life altering experience.



Also, Xbox has from the beginning been billed as the adult console. The game assortment has more M rated games than the other consoles (and less child friendly themed ones)

Is it fair to step into a biker bar and complain that all the guys there got bears and wear leather?
 

WC_lun

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I understand what you are saying Gran, but a few things. To use your analogy of a biker bar. If i stepped into a biker bar I might expect loud, rough, behaviour, but I doubt I'd have to step up to keep my wife from being assaulted. Also, I'd expect there to be adults in the bar, not children using rude behavior because they think that is being an adult. Finally, in a biker bar, someone acts like a douchebag, the police aren't called. They tend to take care of that themselves...painfully. Even in a biker bar, there are repurcussions for certain behaviour.
 

Em MacIntosh

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There need to be legal repercussions for threats of violence and death. Have a clear method to pursue legal action against them, make an example out of them and people will play nicer. Only the stupidest will take their trash talking to the point of threats and they will be served. Violation of the rules, evidence, consequences=bans, charges, lawsuit. They just need clear procedures to enforce and to enforce them.
 

Dirty Dog

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The trash talking is a part of online gaming. Combine the young age of many of the worst offenders with the anonymity of onlne chat, and this is what you get.
It's also true that terms like "rape" are used to refer to a one-sided or badly overmatched duel. Similarly, you can be "pwned", because it's apparently uncool to actually spell owned correctly. I've been verbally assaulted more than once for my unacceptable habit of using (mostly) correct grammar and spelling.
That being said, I think there are certainly better ways to express your intentions or opinions.

Personally, I think the best way to deal with these kiddies is to laugh at them, tell them to grow up, and then ignore them. It also doesn't hurt if you're also able to whup them (in game) in the process. But ignoring them works well all by itself.

Legally, there's probably no recourse, since players are from all over the world, and laws, as well as what is considered acceptable, vary widely.

You can try to get the game company to do something, but that's unlikely. Screenshots are too easy to fake, for one thing.
 

Cyriacus

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In My experience, it tends to be a matter of fixating on the other person, then criticising Them any way You can. If Theyre of the opposite sex, You work with that. If Theyre of the same Sex, You work of that.
I cant name examples without breaking some rules on here, but using blatant censoring, and much lesser terms;
A woman might be called a w****, a man might be called a f*****.
The same idea applies to other races, and so forth. Its just finding ways to 'enhance' an insult.

The thing is though, I know of very few games where You cant just Mute specific people.
 

granfire

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There need to be legal repercussions for threats of violence and death. Have a clear method to pursue legal action against them, make an example out of them and people will play nicer. Only the stupidest will take their trash talking to the point of threats and they will be served. Violation of the rules, evidence, consequences=bans, charges, lawsuit. They just need clear procedures to enforce and to enforce them.


Well, how real is the threat?

Some unknown person at who knows were talks smack. Chances are, you meet the same person at the comicon or startrek convention, he (or she, to a lesser degree) is the nicest person you will ever meet.

It is not a matter of not knowing that the words and phrases are bad.

It's more a case of knowing that very well, and being defiant about it.

on the other hand, what does it matter to you (general, not personal) what a stranger on the net is saying.



Another thought:
We have such high demands on the boys to be men: A man does this, but not that. men like machines and fast cars, they don't do women's work. blah blah, all the stereo types are alive and well.
if you love your mo, you are less manly. (there are a lot of 'your mom' insults in the gaming scene)

So the players step into the alternate universe of the game and they can be the tough guys they can't be in reality.




But I can't leave this without having to share my favorite comebacks:
Do you kiss your mother with that mouth?
I think your mom is calling you, you gotta go clean your room.....

:)
 
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