Thoughts on WT “Sport” “Olympic Taekwondo

gorilla2

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I have been involved in sport TKD for 17 years...When we started it was Old Skool now it is New Skool...my son just won a Bronze Medal at the Mexico Open SR BB he has beaten fighters as high as #11 in the world...but has yet to beat anyone in the Top10 @-68kg Featherweight...the knock on him is that he likes to fight too much which leaves him open to get scored on by ticky tak points...a good example is he lost at the US Open 16-15 but beat the other fighter up so bad that he was unable to continue the Chinese Taipei fighter had to forfeit his next match...his coach is an Olympic medalist and he is training him to play the game more and fight less...an odd proposition for a combat sport
 

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Not really. It is a game. It has rules and points and judges it's a game not a street fight and obviously your kid isn't playing the right way to make it top ten. Sport fighting especially karate or taekwondo isn't about beating someone up its about landing scoring techniques and getting the points needed. Again it's not a street fight
 
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Not really. It is a game. It has rules and points and judges it's a game not a street fight and obviously your kid isn't playing the right way to make it top ten. Sport fighting especially karate or taekwondo isn't about beating someone up its about landing scoring techniques and getting the points needed. Again it's not a street fight

What even is the rules in Karate/TKD about knockouts? (obviously if you knock someone out and its a points game you are doing it wrong) If you know anyway. I dont really like WTF just because it doesn't allow punches to the face where as ITF does. at least traditionally in full contact sports fighting.
 
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gorilla2

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Not really. It is a game. It has rules and points and judges it's a game not a street fight and obviously your kid isn't playing the right way to make it top ten. Sport fighting especially karate or taekwondo isn't about beating someone up its about landing scoring techniques and getting the points needed. Again it's not a street fight
Of course it isn’t a street fight....and he doesn’t fight like it is...but he does kick with power punches with power...he has won 3 National Titles as a Senior USAT and and 3 AAU...so he knows how to win at this sport...it has been difficult to take the fight out of him...but if he doesn’t he will not achieve his goal of being the best in the world...
 

Headhunter

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Of course it isn’t a street fight....and he doesn’t fight like it is...but he does kick with power punches with power...he has won 3 National Titles as a Senior USAT and and 3 AAU...so he knows how to win at this sport...it has been difficult to take the fight out of him...but if he doesn’t he will not achieve his goal of being the best in the world...
Then if that's he wants he has to do it. Not make excuses for losing. He knows why he lost so fix it. Simple as that
 

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Of course it isn’t a street fight....and he doesn’t fight like it is...but he does kick with power punches with power...he has won 3 National Titles as a Senior USAT and and 3 AAU...so he knows how to win at this sport...it has been difficult to take the fight out of him...but if he doesn’t he will not achieve his goal of being the best in the world...
 

Headhunter

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What even is the rules in Karate/TKD about knockouts? (obviously if you knock someone out and its a points game you are doing it wrong) If you know anyway. I dont really like WTF just because it doesn't allow punches to the face where as ITF does. at least traditionally in full contact sports fighting.
No idea about taekwondo I don't train it and don't have interest in watching it. I don't like the way they fight with their hands at their waist and even in clinch range are throwing head kicks and terrible punches.

But for karate knockouts aren't legal. If you knock someone It's disqualification. In some comps if you draw blood you get disqualified and that leads to some biting their lips on purpose to get a dq win
 
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gorilla2

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What even is the rules in Karate/TKD about knockouts? (obviously if you knock someone out and its a points game you are doing it wrong) If you know anyway. I dont really like WTF just because it doesn't allow punches to the face where as ITF does. at least traditionally in full contact sports fighting.
Are you a Karateka
What even is the rules in Karate/TKD about knockouts? (obviously if you knock someone out and its a points game you are doing it wrong) If you know anyway. I dont really like WTF just because it doesn't allow punches to the face where as ITF does. at least traditionally in full contact sports fighting.

If you KO someone in TKD with a legal kick to the head you win!
 
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No idea about taekwondo I don't train it and don't have interest in watching it. I don't like the way they fight with their hands at their waist and even in clinch range are throwing head kicks and terrible punches.

But for karate knockouts aren't legal. If you knock someone It's disqualification. In some comps if you draw blood you get disqualified and that leads to some biting their lips on purpose to get a dq win

Fair enough, I have been told to keep my guard up in one style of TKD and to drop my fist back to the belt in another. needless to say i don't get it, if my guards up it stays up until the threat is over.

I dont think they should list it as for self defence if their competitions dont let you punch to the head to be honest.



Are you a Karateka

I am not, i have done a bit of TKD though, but not any competitions etc in it and not much actual sparring in it.
 

dvcochran

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I have been involved in sport TKD for 17 years...When we started it was Old Skool now it is New Skool...my son just won a Bronze Medal at the Mexico Open SR BB he has beaten fighters as high as #11 in the world...but has yet to beat anyone in the Top10 @-68kg Featherweight...the knock on him is that he likes to fight too much which leaves him open to get scored on by ticky tak points...a good example is he lost at the US Open 16-15 but beat the other fighter up so bad that he was unable to continue the Chinese Taipei fighter had to forfeit his next match...his coach is an Olympic medalist and he is training him to play the game more and fight less...an odd proposition for a combat sport
Maybe, but if that is the way to compete in the new school so be it. I think it would be worse if the conditions were reversed and he wasn't a good fighter. I look forward to hearing about his future accomplishments.
 

dvcochran

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Fair enough, I have been told to keep my guard up in one style of TKD and to drop my fist back to the belt in another. needless to say i don't get it, if my guards up it stays up until the threat is over.

I dont think they should list it as for self defence if their competitions dont let you punch to the head to be honest.





I am not, i have done a bit of TKD though, but not any competitions etc in it and not much actual sparring in it.
It should be made clear that there is TKD art and TKD sport. There is some overlap a certain schools but not much. TKD art has every right to fall under the same SD heading as most others styles.
 

Earl Weiss

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Fair enough,

I dont think they should list it as for self defence if their competitions dont let you punch to the head to be honest.

What bout arts where sparring lets you punch to the head but not kick below the waist? How about kicking below the waist but no groin shots? What iff they allow ll that but no eye pokes? Biting? Small joint manipulation" and so on.
 

Gerry Seymour

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Of course it isn’t a street fight....and he doesn’t fight like it is...but he does kick with power punches with power...he has won 3 National Titles as a Senior USAT and and 3 AAU...so he knows how to win at this sport...it has been difficult to take the fight out of him...but if he doesn’t he will not achieve his goal of being the best in the world...
It sounds like part of the question is best...at what? If he wants to be the best at those rules, he needs to lose a lot of the power (during competition) and get more points. If he wants to be the best at something that uses that power, he needs to change sports. Right now, his actions don't align with what he seems to want, which makes me think he's not clear on his own goal.

That's not as harsh a statement as it might seem. I suspect he might have two goals that are in conflict. He wants to be the best at this ruleset, but has a competing (perhaps unstated) goal to be a good fighter, and has confounded the two. It'd be like working on a home-run swing and trying to become a better golfer. Nothing wrong with either, but they would be in conflict, especially if you try to apply the former to the latter.
 

Gerry Seymour

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Fair enough, I have been told to keep my guard up in one style of TKD and to drop my fist back to the belt in another. needless to say i don't get it, if my guards up it stays up until the threat is over.

I dont think they should list it as for self defence if their competitions dont let you punch to the head to be honest.
Competition isn't "for self defense". (Though it can be a useful tool for developing skills useful for SD, if applied properly.)
 

CKB

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What even is the rules in Karate/TKD about knockouts? (obviously if you knock someone out and its a points game you are doing it wrong) If you know anyway. I dont really like WTF just because it doesn't allow punches to the face where as ITF does. at least traditionally in full contact sports fighting.

You knock someone out in WT(F), you win. You knock someone out in ITF, you get disqualified.

WT(F) competition rules, article 16 and 17:
World Taekwondo Federation Competition Rules

ITF competition rules, sections T36, T38:
https://www.taekwondoitf.org/wp-con...-Rules-feb-8-In-force-of-January-1st-2013.pdf
 

Tez3

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No idea about taekwondo I don't train it and don't have interest in watching it. I don't like the way they fight with their hands at their waist and even in clinch range are throwing head kicks and terrible punches.

But for karate knockouts aren't legal. If you knock someone It's disqualification. In some comps if you draw blood you get disqualified and that leads to some biting their lips on purpose to get a dq win


it depends on what the competition rules are in the specific karate competition. Some allow full contact, KOs are fine, some are points fights as you say a tiny bit of blood gets you disqualified. Karate is such a generic term it's hard to actually say what the rules are unless you know the competition.
 

jobo

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Fair enough, I have been told to keep my guard up in one style of TKD and to drop my fist back to the belt in another. needless to say i don't get it, if my guards up it stays up until the threat is over.

I dont think they should list it as for self defence if their competitions dont let you punch to the head to be honest.





I am not, i have done a bit of TKD though, but not any competitions etc in it and not much actual sparring in it.
as a general rule of thumb, competition arts are a better bet for self defence, than theoretic arts, it's not at all difficult to move your target to something that's not allowed in your sport and very difficult to learn to fight someone fast and mobile that hits hard if all you've been doing is one step drilled and light sparing
 

CB Jones

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We dont care for the TKD style competition.

We prefer open karate/tkd tournaments with all strikes (punches and kicks) being equal value for scoring.
 

Buka

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We dont care for the TKD style competition.

We prefer open karate/tkd tournaments with all strikes (punches and kicks) being equal value for scoring.

I competed a lot over the years, it was fun. As for tournaments, I only went to open ones. Went to a few invitationals, but it was because I was invited. Went to a Tang-Soo-Do tournie once as I was invited by a a guy I knew who had a dozen Tang Soo schools. It had some odd rules. One point for a punch or a kick, two points for a head kick, three points for a jump head kick where the trail leg was higher than opponents belt level - never heard that one before. Anyway, I fought the local hero who had won the year before. And I had one of those days where you're Superman. I could do no wrong. I have never kicked and punched a man like I did that day. I was throwing aerial kicks and making up Matrix stuff in the air, hitting him all over his head - but I was wearing the wrong color gi. No points for me.

I step up side kicked him out of the ring area three times, he went butt over tea kettle - they were called "push kicks", no points. The only point I was awarded the whole match, where I swear I hit him clean with every single technique I threw, was he rushed me once, and I actually dropped to one knee like in a movie and hit him in the stomach trying to punch a hole in him. He doubled over and went down with no wind.

I lost six to one and I swear he only hit me with one kick. But it's still a happy memory for me, as it was the best I have ever moved in a tournament match. But you just couldn't wear a black gi in "white gi country" back then. You were considered evil.

It's why I only went to open tournies.
 

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