The Seattle cop killer incident: Who is to blame?

Grenadier

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Everyone here now knows about the scumbag, Maurice Clemmons, who murdered 4 police officers in cold blood, at a coffee shop.

The question is, though, how the hell was he allowed to roam around in society?

A summary of his crime-laden life




My take on the events:

Some people blame former Governor Mike Huckabee (R-AR) for granting Clemmons a sentence commutation, regarding the 100+ year sentence, and reducing it to 47 years.

However, is this really the issue? Huckabee's actions simply reduced Clemmons' sentence to 47 years. He did NOT pardon him, as some in the media would have you believe.

I don't agree with Huckabee's actions here; Clemmons already had enough of a bad rap sheet, that he should not have been given any leniency at all. I can, however, understand why he chose to grant him the sentence reduction, due to his age.

Huckabee made a mistake, since the reduction in sentence allowed Clemmons to qualify for parole, and the parole board granted him the parole. Of course, Clemmons basically took this second chance, and threw it away, since one year later (in 2001), he committed theft and robbery, and was sentenced to 10 years in prison. He was granted parole AGAIN in 2004, which was an even bigger mistake by the board. Huckabee had nothing to do with this decision.

I still remember the multitudes of bleeding heart folks who claimed that this man was a victim of racism, and social pressure, and deserved another chance.

Well, here was his next chance, and he moved to Seattle, where he was now in the hands of the Washington DOC, not the Arkansas DOC. In 2009, he was engaged in numerous cases of assault, including punching a law enforcement officer in the face, as well as assaulting another LEO, resulting in his being tossed into jail, in order to face 2 felony counts of assault, and 2 misdemeanor counts.

Somehow, a soft-hearted judge overlooked his lengthy record, and allowed him to make bail. This was an even bigger mistake than the previous ones made by the folks in Arkansas.

Two days after his bail, he was attempting to sexually molest two young girls. He fled the area, and was arrested AGAIN in July, and was awaiting sentencing on rape and unlawful fleeing. AGAIN, a soft-hearted judge granted him bail, and even a reduced one at that. This was an even bigger mistake, since now his entire track record has to be screaming in your faces.

Then in November, the horrible incident occurred, where he killed 4 LEO's.

There were a lot of mistakes made along the way. Out of all of the mistakes made, though, Huckabee's was the smallest of the mistakes.

Again, I do NOT support Huckabee's decision to reduce the sentence, since this allowed a rather foolish parole board to make the mistakes in the first place. However, to say that Huckabee's actions are solely to blame for this, is sheer stupidity combined with partisanship.

Every single event after that showed Clemmon's lengthy rap sheet, which kept getting bigger with each passing year... At that point, even the most bleeding heart purists must agree that some people are incorrigible.
 

Steve

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This was exactly the train of thought I wrote over in the other thread (although nowhere near as detailed). I'm not sure I agree with Huckabee's decision to commute the sentence. I am sure, however, that this was the first in a long line of mistakes made, each one making less sense than the previous one.
 

SensibleManiac

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At this point he should get the death penalty, and fast.
I blame him for the "incident".
The politician, parole board and judges are somewhat to blame as well but ultimately he was the one who pulled the trigger.
It's sad we live in a society who has people in place to oversee that things like this don't happen and they can't see after repeated warnings, that releasing someone like this is a bad idea.
 

Steve

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At this point he should get the death penalty, and fast.
I blame him for the "incident".
The politician, parole board and judges are somewhat to blame as well but ultimately he was the one who pulled the trigger.
It's sad we live in a society who has people in place to oversee that things like this don't happen and they can't see after repeated warnings, that releasing someone like this is a bad idea.
He was shot and killed at the time of his arrest.
 

shesulsa

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According to Wikipedia, Washington State is the only one in the nation with an active gallows. The alternative used to be firing squad. Now the main course of capitol punishment is lethal injection.

I'm more in favor of firing squad in cases like this.
 

MJS

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If someone wants to say something on behalf of the POS, then so be it. But IMHO, the Gov. overstepped his bounds BIG TIME and I don't feel there is anything he can say to remedy that. In the end, its the judge, not a Gov, a preacher or anyone else, non-LEO related, that should impact the decision to let someone out early.

The 'system' as we know it today....well, some will say its messed up, others will disagree. I've seen my share of rap sheets and many times I wonder just how someone with 30+ arrests, could be walking the streets, doing more crime, as they obviously didn't learn their lesson. Now, does the way that the cop writes the warrant, the way this person reads it, the way the next guy does this and that, etc., etc., impact whether or not the scum bag walks or gets jail time? Very possible. And if thats the case, then fingers need to be pointed somewhere. If the cop complains because he's arrested the same POS 10 times already, perhaps its the way he's writing, that impacts the chain of events.

Is it right to just point to the cop? No. Look at the parole system. Why are guys being paroled who have serious felony charges, repeat offenders, etc.? Are they that backlogged that things get overlooked? If so, fix the problem. Hire people, fire the ones screwing up, but do something, to avoid more cases like this.
 

shesulsa

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I take it Arizona doesn't have a three-strike law?
 

celtic_crippler

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According to Wikipedia, Washington State is the only one in the nation with an active gallows. The alternative used to be firing squad. Now the main course of capitol punishment is lethal injection.

I'm more in favor of firing squad in cases like this.

I kinda like the idea of him hanging to death actually.

Legislation in regards to crimnal law often reflects the wishes of the people. The influence of everything from bleeding hearts to the religious right have helped to really screw up our priorities as a nation in this regard.

As a result you have people serving longer sentences for victimless crimes (that oxymoron never fails to amaze me) than those who actually cause physical, emotional, spiritual, and mental damage to others. For example, a child molester is back out on the street much more quickly than a drug user.

In my world, if you rape a child you should die. Call me harsh. Call me uncivilized, but that's the way I feel. People that only prey on society and contribute nothing more than pain and suffering should be cut from society like the cancer they are.

Our Judicial System isn't going to fix itself, nor will it be fixed over night. We have to pressure our representatives to get our priorities straight and pass legislation to begin correcting the problems. But first, we have to recognize that crimes that involve victims should actully be the priority.
 

grydth

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Who's to blame.....

First, and foremost, the killer himself. I don't care if he was raised by Satan in Hell's garbage dump. There is no excuse for the crime spree that was his rotten 'life'.

Second, his accomplices. I have always been amazed that the worst psychotics are able to attract sidekicks..... one can only hope that the surprising (disgusting) number of losers who helped this killer - the getaway driver, those who phoned in false tips, those who gave him money/medical care/shelter, those who were trying to get him out of state - all get long stays in custody.

Three, society. Oh no, I don't mean it in the loony lib sense of making excuses for this cowardly murderer.... I mean it in the sense of losing the spine to defend ourselves from its ilk. I've had it with the hand wringing, the soul searching.... why oh why did Mr Clemmons and the 9/11 pirates hate us sooooo much, what did we do wrong? Mr Clemmons, he has rights... that's why the cops dawdled outside an empty house for so long.

We've lost the will to defend ourselves, our kids and our society. We lost the sense that those police officers he murdered, that child he abused, had rights too.... and we've forgotten that those rights are one Hell of a lot more important than whatever Clemmons or Osama have. We hide the loss of our collective will behind political partisanship.... hounding a liberal Mike Dukakis over Willie Horton while giving Conservative Mike Huckabee a free pass for letting more and worse out. We're so busy watching reality TV that we never hold Governors responsible for the outrageous decisions of their parole boards. We skip jury duty and voting, only to sit on our fat asses whining about how bad its all become. We allow ourselves to take solace in phony prison sentences, knowing that he may get 100 years but he'll be out in 2.

We've lost the nerve to damn the damnable, and to do what we need to in order to protect ourselves. Who's to blame: me and all of you.
 

Archangel M

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The latest i have heard. The guy who drove the getaway car was paroled on a murder charge from a liquor store robbery in Arkansas. Where he met Clemons in prison.

Seeing a trend here?
 

Steve

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Clemons dead body in the town square as buzzard bait.
A little gruesome, but much more clear. Thanks.

What's the old comedy where someone says, "Let's Hang em!"

"No! Let's BURN 'em!"

"Let's hang him... THEN burn him!"

This reminds me of that.
 

Deaf Smith

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The primary one to blame is the killer himself. He did the deed. It's his responsibilty to live by the rules we all live by. He didn't. Simple as that. Happly he got what he deserved and won't take anymore taxpayers money in prison or on trial. He is now in the prison of no parole!

Then the judges that let him go on a pittance bail even with his super long rap sheet. They knew the crimes he had commited yet they give him a astoundingly low bail. And keep in mind if you use a bondsman you only plunk down 10 percent!

Huckabee? He did that many years ago when the crimes the guy had comitted were done at 16 years old. That's way way back.

Deaf
 

Steve

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The primary one to blame is the killer himself. He did the deed. It's his responsibilty to live by the rules we all live by. He didn't. Simple as that. Happly he got what he deserved and won't take anymore taxpayers money in prison or on trial. He is now in the prison of no parole!

Then the judges that let him go on a pittance bail even with his super long rap sheet. They knew the crimes he had commited yet they give him a astoundingly low bail. And keep in mind if you use a bondsman you only plunk down 10 percent!

Huckabee? He did that many years ago when the crimes the guy had comitted were done at 16 years old. That's way way back.

Deaf
I don't think that anyone would disagree that the criminal is ultimately responsible for his behavior. But he was tried and convicted. He was in jail and then released. Then arrested and released again. And then again. At what point do we (collectively) take responsibility for his actions? At what point should someone be held responsible for allowing a known psychopath to roam around? I mean, he of course should be held accountable, but this tragedy could have been avoided. What lessons can we learn so that this doesn't happen again?
 

grydth

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The latest i have heard. The guy who drove the getaway car was paroled on a murder charge from a liquor store robbery in Arkansas. Where he met Clemons in prison.

Seeing a trend here?

Yeah, parole that should've never been granted.

But things are no better here in the Peoples Republic of New York. A recent story by WGRZ in Buffalo highlights the problems: Those on the Parole Board are appointed for 6 year terms by the Governor. They earn 102k per year, and some have other jobs, a subject they are rather touchy about... two were just removed - one for stealing a work computer and the other for soliciting young girls (wonder if they can aprole themselves...)

Where's the accountability? They couldn't even verify these political hacks were at work, much less hold them accountable for freeing monsters.

These positions need to be elected and for 3 years not 6.
 

celtic_crippler

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A little gruesome, but much more clear. Thanks.

What's the old comedy where someone says, "Let's Hang em!"

"No! Let's BURN 'em!"

"Let's hang him... THEN burn him!"

This reminds me of that.

Sounds like Python. :)

Yeah, parole that should've never been granted.

But things are no better here in the Peoples Republic of New York. A recent story by WGRZ in Buffalo highlights the problems: Those on the Parole Board are appointed for 6 year terms by the Governor. They earn 102k per year, and some have other jobs, a subject they are rather touchy about... two were just removed - one for stealing a work computer and the other for soliciting young girls (wonder if they can aprole themselves...)

Where's the accountability? They couldn't even verify these political hacks were at work, much less hold them accountable for freeing monsters.

These positions need to be elected and for 3 years not 6.

Gotta love the beurocracy.

....NOT!


Yet somehow, the ones responsible continue to be reelected.

Explain that!
 

SensibleManiac

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I read today that he was shot and killed, sounds like a fast execution to me.

One less monster on the street, this doesn't mean that society shouldn't work to make sure we aren't creating monsters. Just that one less monster is a good thing.
 

Deaf Smith

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At what point should someone be held responsible for allowing a known psychopath to roam around? I mean, he of course should be held accountable, but this tragedy could have been avoided. What lessons can we learn so that this doesn't happen again?

Unfortunately judges have immunity as for making bone headed decisions.

Now that does not mean people can't picket their homes, or stand outside the court house with signs calling the judges murders, or if the judges are elected, run against them or vote them out.

But, we make a judge immune for a reason. So that people can't put pressure on them to make corrupt decisions.

It's also difficult to punish the politician that appointed the idiot judges. We tend to vote for many reasons, not just one. And blaming the politician for such an appointment is low on the totem pole of priorities.

Our only real alternative is to take decisions out of the judge’s hands. That is mandatory guidelines for bail. BUT, that can also come back to bite ones posterior when excessive bail is used to punish a undesirable, or political opponent.

There is no real good fast answer. Yes I blame the judge more than anything except the criminal. So I guess picketing the judge (as Bill O’Reilly is kind of doing on Fox) is the most effective thing to do right now.

Deaf
 

MJS

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The latest i have heard. The guy who drove the getaway car was paroled on a murder charge from a liquor store robbery in Arkansas. Where he met Clemons in prison.

Seeing a trend here?

I do...birds of a feather, flock together. Once a POS, always a POS. They should lock up anyone and everyone that took part in aiding this dirtbag.
 
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