The Mechanics Of Powering Your Martial Arts Movement

Alan0354

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I want to add to my last post. I am not an expert like you guys that are instructors, I only had 3 years of TKD and some Judo and WC only. I do spend time in thinking how to make use of my limited skill and knowledge. This is my NON expert opinion.

I have been practicing cane fight for a few months. The last month, I concentrate in striking multiple opponents in different position by pretending different furniture as person, using different door posts in the entryway as opponents. I try to use FOOTWORK and move to the optimal position to strike different targets with full body engagement to produce the max power.....That is the same as punching or kicking at the optimal position so I can use feet, legs, waist, shoulder to add forces together to give the hardest strike.

The idea is the same as stand up striking at the optimal position. You use FOOTWORK to get you to the optimal position. WHY try to strike in a less optimal position that you can only use some part of the body only? Seems like the most efficient way is to practice footwork to GET to the optimal position.

I have been watching footwork for Kali and try to adapt into both cane fight and kickboxing. I think it's very useful to move to optimal position to strike and move away after striking.
 

Kung Fu Wang

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You use FOOTWORK to get you to the optimal position.
But the moment that a clinch has been established, the footwork will no longer work after that.

dead_lock1.jpg
 

Alan0354

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But the moment that a clinch has been established, the footwork will no longer work after that.

View attachment 27667

You read my post #40?

That's exactly my question. All the videos in this thread is about striking in free standing. The hard part is how to strike an effective strike when you are being tackled, pinned to the wall or on your back. If anyone has a solution, I am all ears. ALL the videos here is of no use when you are being tied up.

When you are standing upright, everything is a lot easier. If you are not in optimal position, use footwork to get to the optimal position. I don't see the point of talking more, every style has their own way of punching, but all involve feet, legs, waist, shoulder. There is NO SECRET in this, we learn it in the first day of school, I am sure it's the same with other schools. Idea is simple, doing it takes a lot of practice.
 
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JowGaWolf

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you really MISS READ. I said there is NO SECRET. You know the basic and just practice.
nope. didn't misread. Just messing with you. You may not notice but you tend to have your little irritants.

How do you use waist, shoulder and still give a good punch. If I am on free standing, I can use Chinkuchi.
Your feet may not always be in the position to do so. In additions some techniques just don't have it. For example, jab while going backwards and let me know what you are using to create power for your punch.

Sorry, talk is cheap. give me example, don't just say "if" you cannot use the whole body, then the other parts are important.
Talk isn't cheap. People should think. People should earn to think things through come up with their own theories and then test them. That's the only way a person will understand things. Think of it like this. Just because someone gives you the right answers to the test doesn't mean you understand what's on the test. Martial Arts and Fighting is like that.

I want to see how you punch or attack IF your position is compromised, show videos if you can.
I've already shown these videos before in the past before you joined where someone went for my legs and I had to generate power with my waist because my legs were not in a position to do so.

I even have a video of me "sitting in the storm" which just simply means I'm being hit with a bunch of punches, so my legs are helping me keep my balance and stability as I look for an opening to punch with my arms.

But since you want don't want to think about it. Here's a video where an elbow is used to strike. Then again on top mount. In both cases waist movement to generate the power of those strikes.
 
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JowGaWolf

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Don't show more free standing fights and talk.
This is starting to get really tiring. Every time I talk martial arts with you I'm the one that has to prove something to you.

I had more to say about your post but at this stage, I'm starting not to care
 
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JowGaWolf

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You read my post #40?

That's exactly my question. All the videos in this thread is about striking in free standing. The hard part is how to strike an effective strike when you are being tackled, pinned to the wall or on your back. If anyone has a solution, I am all ears. ALL the videos here is of no use when you are being tied up.

When you are standing upright, everything is a lot easier. If you are not in optimal position, use footwork to get to the optimal position. I don't see the point of talking more, every style has their own way of punching, but all involve feet, legs, waist, shoulder. There is NO SECRET in this, we learn it in the first day of school, I am sure it's the same with other schools. Idea is simple, doing it takes a lot of practice.
You keep thinking that we are talking about striking and we aren't. We are looking at different ways people are powering martial art movement. The videos I posted show how action is being powered.

If you are reading this and thinking that it's all about striking then you are totally missing the point.

Generating power with your feet, legs, hips, waist, torso and arms doesn't mean you are always punching.
 

Alan0354

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nope. didn't misread. Just messing with you. You may not notice but you tend to have your little irritants.


Your feet may not always be in the position to do so. In additions some techniques just don't have it. For example, jab while going backwards and let me know what you are using to create power for your punch.


Talk isn't cheap. People should think. People should earn to think things through come up with their own theories and then test them. That's the only way a person will understand things. Think of it like this. Just because someone gives you the right answers to the test doesn't mean you understand what's on the test. Martial Arts and Fighting is like that.


I've already shown these videos before in the past before you joined where someone went for my legs and I had to generate power with my waist because my legs were not in a position to do so.

I even have a video of me "sitting in the storm" which just simply means I'm being hit with a bunch of punches, so my legs are helping me keep my balance and stability as I look for an opening to punch with my arms.

But since you want don't want to think about it. Here's a video where an elbow is used to strike. Then again on top mount. In both cases waist movement to generate the power of those strikes.
I think a lot, remember I thought of iron palm to hit the opponent's back if they try to shoot and tackle me. I spent a few years on that and it did not work. I think of different scenarios, what if the opponent is too close, I practice elbows on heavy bags and knees to body. I practice hammer fist for close fighting, ridge hand(circle punch) to swing around.

Like I said, I practice footwork lately to get to the better position. Somehow it works better for cane fight than bare knuckles. I don't just practice punching bags standing there at the optimal position, I move in and out, moving in the hit, then moving out, practice footwork together with punching. I make it harder to have 2 bags so I attack one, then turn around and attack the other back and fore. All to learn to acquire the optimal position faster. Do I think about things.

I thought about punching high, so I practice WC punching with the baby knuckle that is better for punching high. Do I think.

I think A LOT, I hang weight balls to hit so it moves around and have to duck after punching, chasing the ball. I make my own deflated weighted speedbag for punching where it swing randomly instead of the normal speedbag that you can establish a rhythm and becomes automatic. Do I think.

I thought you guys are experts, instructors. what you are talking is very basic that I learn pretty much in the first day of TKD, how to use feet, legs, waist, shoulder together to generate the max power. There is no secret, it's simple, doing it is much harder, one just need to know and keep practicing in over and over. I was not even going to join in until you called me out.

Like I said, I was just going through the motion for years even though I never stop punching heavy bags all these years, I LOST the coordination. You made a video that reminded me to start slow, do it in slow motion. That reminded me to get back to basics. I have been practice slow and light every time at the beginning of the session to remind myself. Still I can't use the whole body consistently. Idea is very very simple, make the body work in harmony is the hard part. The only secret is keep practicing.

For stand up fights, next to using the whole body, footwork is about the next most important thing. You get to the optimal position with footwork. Like I said in post #41, I use the home entryway to practice, there are a lot of door frames, I use each side as one opponent. I learn to attack one, then quickly choose another one, move to optimal position as quick as possible and strike. I do that with cane which is a lot harder as the space is confined. I think a lot to simulate different situations in practical self defense.

Now, if you have idea how to hit very hard when the opponent pin you down on the ground, pin you to the wall and very close, I am all ears. All I can think of is elbows and generate power with just the shoulder. That is something really worth talking short of learning take down defense.
 
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Wing Woo Gar

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I think a lot, remember I thought of iron palm to hit the opponent's back if they try to shoot and tackle me. I spent a few years on that and it did not work. I think of different scenarios, what if the opponent is too close, I practice elbows on heavy bags and knees to body. I practice hammer fist for close fighting, ridge hand(circle punch) to swing around.

Like I said, I practice footwork lately to get to the better position. Somehow it works better for cane fight than bare knuckles. I don't just practice punching bags standing there at the optimal position, I move in and out, moving in the hit, then moving out, practice footwork together with punching. I make it harder to have 2 bags so I attack one, then turn around and attack the other back and fore. All to learn to acquire the optimal position faster. Do I think about things.

I thought about punching high, so I practice WC punching with the baby knuckle that is better for punching high. Do I think.

I think A LOT, I hang weight balls to hit so it moves around and have to duck after punching, chasing the ball. I make my own deflated weighted speedbag for punching where it swing randomly instead of the normal speedbag that you can establish a rhythm and becomes automatic. Do I think.

I thought you guys are experts, instructors. what you are talking is very basic that I learn pretty much in the first day of TKD, how to use feet, legs, waist, shoulder together to generate the max power. There is no secret, it's simple, doing it is much harder, one just need to know and keep practicing in over and over. I was not even going to join in until you called me out.

Like I said, I was just going through the motion for years even though I never stop punching heavy bags all these years, I LOST the coordination. You made a video that reminded me to start slow, do it in slow motion. That reminded me to get back to basics. I have been practice slow and light every time at the beginning of the session to remind myself. Still I can't use the whole body consistently. Idea is very very simple, make the body work in harmony is the hard part. The only secret is keep practicing.

For stand up fights, next to using the whole body, footwork is about the next most important thing. You get to the optimal position with footwork. Like I said in post #41, I use the home entryway to practice, there are a lot of door frames, I use each side as one opponent. I learn to attack one, then quickly choose another one, move to optimal position as quick as possible and strike. I do that with cane which is a lot harder as the space is confined. I think a lot to simulate different situations in practical self defense.

Now, if you have idea how to hit very hard when the opponent pin you down on the ground, pin you to the wall and very close, I am all ears. All I can think of is elbows and generate power with just the shoulder. That is something really worth talking short of learning take down defense.
I believe this is the wrong thread for what you are asking/talking about. You might get better responses if you lose the aggressive attitude. Nobody is claiming to be an expert here. Some of us have decades of experience that we base our opinions on. We are discussing the different ways of generating power, not techniques for the clinch. You say this is a simple thing you learned in beginning TKD, so why not explain in detail how YOU do it. Being aggressive or rude isnt going to solicit the advice you seem to be seeking.
 

Wing Woo Gar

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I think a lot, remember I thought of iron palm to hit the opponent's back if they try to shoot and tackle me. I spent a few years on that and it did not work. I think of different scenarios, what if the opponent is too close, I practice elbows on heavy bags and knees to body. I practice hammer fist for close fighting, ridge hand(circle punch) to swing around.

Like I said, I practice footwork lately to get to the better position. Somehow it works better for cane fight than bare knuckles. I don't just practice punching bags standing there at the optimal position, I move in and out, moving in the hit, then moving out, practice footwork together with punching. I make it harder to have 2 bags so I attack one, then turn around and attack the other back and fore. All to learn to acquire the optimal position faster. Do I think about things.

I thought about punching high, so I practice WC punching with the baby knuckle that is better for punching high. Do I think.

I think A LOT, I hang weight balls to hit so it moves around and have to duck after punching, chasing the ball. I make my own deflated weighted speedbag for punching where it swing randomly instead of the normal speedbag that you can establish a rhythm and becomes automatic. Do I think.

I thought you guys are experts, instructors. what you are talking is very basic that I learn pretty much in the first day of TKD, how to use feet, legs, waist, shoulder together to generate the max power. There is no secret, it's simple, doing it is much harder, one just need to know and keep practicing in over and over. I was not even going to join in until you called me out.

Like I said, I was just going through the motion for years even though I never stop punching heavy bags all these years, I LOST the coordination. You made a video that reminded me to start slow, do it in slow motion. That reminded me to get back to basics. I have been practice slow and light every time at the beginning of the session to remind myself. Still I can't use the whole body consistently. Idea is very very simple, make the body work in harmony is the hard part. The only secret is keep practicing.

For stand up fights, next to using the whole body, footwork is about the next most important thing. You get to the optimal position with footwork. Like I said in post #41, I use the home entryway to practice, there are a lot of door frames, I use each side as one opponent. I learn to attack one, then quickly choose another one, move to optimal position as quick as possible and strike. I do that with cane which is a lot harder as the space is confined. I think a lot to simulate different situations in practical self defense.

Now, if you have idea how to hit very hard when the opponent pin you down on the ground, pin you to the wall and very close, I am all ears. All I can think of is elbows and generate power with just the shoulder. That is something really worth talking short of learning take down defense.
If you want to learn how to fight from the mount or the guard then get some basic bjj classes. I recommend that anyone get at least 6 months of basic grappling skills to understand what they do.
 

Oily Dragon

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I think a lot, remember I thought of iron palm to hit the opponent's back if they try to shoot and tackle me.
I think you thought too much.

Iron palm won't stop a charging bull, why would you waste it on one?
 
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JowGaWolf

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I think a lot, remember I thought of iron palm to hit the opponent's back if they try to shoot and tackle me. I spent a few years on that and it did not work.
You didn't factor in the other aspects of someone tackling you. For example.
1. What if the person lifts my legs?
2. What if the person goes under my punch, will I have enough time to respond.
3. If the tackle knocks you off balance then will you still be able to strike.
4. What if your opponent comes in at an angle that doesn't allow you to strike his back?
5. What if your opponent punches your face then go for your leg.
6. Did you ever ask someone to try to tackle you. I don't mean that light effort stuff. I mean did someone try to put you on your back. Did that person know how to do take downs at all.
7. What if the person come in high for the take down and not. Take downs can be initiated from high up as well.

The list goes on and on and on. But you have create theories about this using the physics of the actions so that you can have a theory if it will work or not. Once you run these through possible scenarios then you begin to see that the window to land a solid hit when someone is trying to take you down is very small because everything has to be perfect.

You also have to be honest about your theories and the limitations of techniques. Theories should never be what you want them to be. You should have no bias when creating a theory. You should have a an open mind and allow physics and body mechanics to help you develop your theory. Even before you determine what technique you will do against someone. You must first understand how your opponent's techniques can effect your body or your mind. "Know your enemy. Know yourself."

Also don't always try to make things "Simple" there's nothing simple about fighting, and there's nothing simple about executing a technique successfully.

I always tell people to address grappling with grappling. I can strike when someone is grabbing me but only after I first address their grappling.
 

isshinryuronin

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Now, if you have idea how to hit very hard when the opponent pin you down on the ground, pin you to the wall and very close, I am all ears. All I can think of is elbows
Very difficult to generate striking power when your hips and/or shoulders are against a surface and thus, neutralized. Elbows may work in some cases, headbutts can work, and biting is an option. Eye pokes and ripping the cheeks or ears don't need much power so should work well.
If you want to learn how to fight from the mount or the guard then get some basic bjj classes.
Other than the above options, this is the answer.
 

Kung Fu Wang

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Now, if you have idea how to hit very hard when the opponent pin you down on the ground, pin you to the wall and very close, I am all ears. All I can think of is elbows
Just spend $19.99 to get yourself a spikers ring - the BJJ guy's worst nightmare. :)

If you train how to fight with your cane (weapon fight while standing), you should also train how to fight on the ground with your spikers ring (weapon fight while on the ground).

I assume your MA interest is beyond the "sport".

spikes_ring.jpg
 
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Wing Woo Gar

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Very difficult to generate striking power when your hips and/or shoulders are against a surface and thus, neutralized. Elbows may work in some cases, headbutts can work, and biting is an option. Eye pokes and ripping the cheeks or ears don't need much power so should work well.

Other than the above options, this is the answer.
I agree with you on this, but, eye pokes and fish hooks can really escalate things to a new level. Not saying I havent done it, just saying that your opponent may gain renewed vigor once you have a thumb in his eye socket.
 

Alan0354

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Very difficult to generate striking power when your hips and/or shoulders are against a surface and thus, neutralized. Elbows may work in some cases, headbutts can work, and biting is an option. Eye pokes and ripping the cheeks or ears don't need much power so should work well.

Other than the above options, this is the answer.
Yep, options are limited but that's to me what is really important. When you are standing, everything is a lot easier.
 

Alan0354

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Just spend $19.99 to get yourself a spikers ring - the BJJ guy's worst nightmare. :)

If you train how to fight with your cane (weapon fight while standing), you should also train how to fight on the ground with your spikers ring (weapon fight while on the ground).

I assume your MA interest is beyond the "sport".

View attachment 27669
No, I have NO interest in sport. It's all self defense, live and death. I am not interested in a lot of talk, if I am standing, I'd find a way to get into position I can use the complete body. BUT that's not what is pressing for a striker only people like me. The worst is to be tackled on the ground.

Is this legal? I would get it in a heart beat if it is. That would be the best idea so far. I wonder whether rings with more pointed edge would work. I suspect those spike ring is not legal.

Thanks


I am looking at self defense pen I can put in pocket also. That should be very effective if I have one in my hand with a grappler.
 
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Hanzou

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That video shows why its important to hold people down on the ground. Knocking them down is no guarantee that they will stay there.

Werent you talking about the guard and mount in post# 49?
 

Kung Fu Wang

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I am looking at self defense pen I can put in pocket also. That should be very effective if I have one in my hand with a grappler.
This is the ancient Chinese weapon used in the ground fight (or under water). You put your middle finger through the ring. It can be a very tight grip. Not sure it's legal or not. You can always say you will use it for "spear fishing".

sc_hook.jpg
 
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