The Limitations of MMA & Kickboxing in Self-defense Applications

[Chuck Johnson]

Howdy folks. Just published another MA article in my blog. I wrote this being as big a fan of MMA & Kickboxing as everyone else, but also wanting to bring to light the fact that as combat systems, neither one of them is still perfect. Particularly since at the end of the day, they are both still sports. Hope you find it to be an enjoyable read!


http://chuck-n-action.blogspot.com/2...g-in-self.html

 

[Jason Striker II]

An informative article!

Of course, all those who have simply jumped on board the current MA craze train (MMA), don't want to hear a word of it. And won't.

 

[Steve]

No such thing as a perfect combat system, and I think most people know that.


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[Tez3]

An informative article!

Of course, all those who have simply jumped on board the current MA craze train (MMA), don't want to hear a word of it. And won't.

Really? And all those jumping on the bandwagon of the 'MMA is pants' brigade will line up slagging of MMA, it's practitioners and it's fans. On MT we like to think we don't slag each others styles off. Most of us have known for many many years that as Steve says there is no perfect combat style.

 

[seasoned]

My instructor always taught "the firstest with the mostest", if that makes sense, it does to me.

No matter who your up against, you snooze you lose...............

 

[Josh Oakley]

Really? And all those jumping on the bandwagon of the 'MMA is pants' brigade will line up slagging of MMA, it's practitioners and it's fans. On MT we like to think we don't slag each others styles off. Most of us have known for many many years that as Steve says there is no perfect combat style.

Just so I al clear on the slang... Pants=bad?

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[Instructor]

I am not a fan of MMA. I just don't like sports, it also extends to things like football and nascar.

I don't disrespect other styles and this includes MMA. Their are no great martial arts only great practitioners. All styles have inherent strengths and weaknesses. No style is superior to another in the same way that no style is inferior.

I can say that MMA has kept Martial Arts in the spotlight and for that we should all be thankful. To me it's a miracle that martial arts are still popular in this day and age.

 

[Tez3]

Just so I al clear on the slang... Pants=bad?

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LOL, that's the one! I thought the OP would appreciate the linguistics of proper English! he can pass it on.
It would be nice not to have another MMA is bad thread tbh, we all know it's a sport that's many do, we know that a few fighters are well honed professionals but the majority of people who train MMA are people who just enjoy the training and may or may not have a competitive fight now and again. The techniques we do in MMA come from TMA so to say that MMA doesn't work for SD is saying what? That TMA doesn't work? It doesn't all the time, it's all very dependent on the person as we know. TKD and karate competitors can switch between competition rules and SD yet it's perceived that MMA people can't because they are 'used to rules' etc it's a long drawn out discussion, we've had it several times on here. It's a discussion we can have again of course but it would be really nice if we could not have the comments such as Jason Striker made.

 

[Josh Oakley]

Damn straight. Pants are bad! Down with pants! Up with miniskirts!

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[Tez3]

I'm sure the OP can get pants ( which are underwear btw) into his raps!

 

[Jenna]

No such thing as a perfect combat system, and I think most people know that.

Exactly. I think when an article like this bases judgement on stereotype then it suggests research is lacking. And perhaps experience of the subject matter more so.

 

[frank raud]

Howdy folks. Just published another MA article in my blog. I wrote this being as big a fan of MMA & Kickboxing as everyone else, but also wanting to bring to light the fact that as combat systems, neither one of them is still perfect. Particularly since at the end of the day, they are both still sports. Hope you find it to be an enjoyable read!


http://chuck-n-action.blogspot.com/2...g-in-self.html

While you state that MMA or Kickboxing don't cover multiple oponents or weapons(which is true), you also don't offer an alternative that does cover both of those scenarios. It is also a fact that in certain circles, they have been combining MMA based training for a weapons based environment, as well as dealing with multiples for over a decade. Not that that helps your case.

 

[frank raud]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsLStyynEVs&feature=related A video from 2005 showing ISR Matrix, a system developed by Luis Guiterrez and Paul Sharp, whose background includes being some of the original teacher/fighters out of Matt Thornton's Straight Blast Gym. As active LEOs, training includes such things as in fight weapons access, jamming the draw of the opponent's weapon, disarms and handcuffing. All based around MMA training.

 

[SavageMan]

First of all let me start by saying those who speak of a subject on opinions alone without researching the subject should remain quiet. The biggest problem MMA has today is people spreading misleading or just plain wrong information. I study traditional Jiu Jitsu, Muay Thai Kickboxing, and parts of Hapkido self defense. Anybody who tells me MMA wouldn't hold up on the street because it's a sport has never went toe to toe with an MMA practitioner. Just because the cage has rules doesn't mean they carry over to real life situations. At least where I train we do go over weapons (stick, knife, & gun). And from what I'm told the gym in Morgantown WV, and Charleston WV does to. First a question for all those Karate/ Kung Fu guys out there when you spar how many of you go full tilt? All I ever hear from you guys is " If we did we would hurt one another." So if that's the way you train is that the way your going to fight in a real life situation. Are you going to hold back? Or are you going to reach for your gym bag and put on your pads first? Get Real! Second a little history lesson for all those who think MMA is restricted to a sport it's called Pankration. You know one of the first recorded martial arts. It was an Olympic sport and practiced as a tournament sport. But oddly it seems the Greeks also used it in warfare. Along with some guys called the Spartans. Yeah I heard they sucked at the whole life & death thing too. If your going to talk smack on a form why don't you start with those who can't seem to find respect for others. At least in MMA we appreciate the forms we take from. Side note for you by the way MMA is not restricted to BBJ and Muay Thai. That's only what you see on TV. The beauty of MMA is that there are no restrictions to training. That means I get to learn a new way to kick a$$ every day.

 

[Cyriacus]

"

Lack of an emphasis on avoiding fights"

​

If You wanna learn how to run away, go jogging every morning. Its better to prepare for the fact that running away isnt a cure all, and be ready to stand and fight. If You dont have to, dont. But id rather be proficient in Defending Myself, rather than proficient in backing Myself into a corner.

 

[chinto]

I find that a lot, not all MMA types have trained for the ring. Also many seem to emphasize BJJ. Bjj is a good system for what it is, but not what I would choose for the street.
Karate, Aikido, Japanese Jujitsu, Kungfu (many systems of it), silat, and many other systems were developed assuming that you would face multiple and armed attackers.
I would say that judo is a less desirable system for self defense then Jujistsu, ( though by say 4th dan or so in Kodokan I understand they have added back a lot of the jujitsu that was removed to make judo.) There is no perfect system, and each must choose for his or her self. I have heard a lot of people claim that things like the UFC or other cage type matches are like a real fight. That is of course ridiculous! Real fights are over in seconds, and they usually do not come as single attackers.

That said, a lot of cage fighters and MMA people have several years or more of TMA training before they decide to train for cage matches. So each case is different.

I would say if you want Self Defense MMA training is provably not your BEST choice, but if its all that is there go for it.

 

[Steve]

I stand by my assertion that, in a pinch, I'd rather have a competent mmaist who isn't a douche and has some semblance of situational awareness than just about anyone else. There might be individual exceptions, but I believe this is a solid choice.


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[Chris Parker]

"

Lack of an emphasis on avoiding fights"

​

If You wanna learn how to run away, go jogging every morning. Its better to prepare for the fact that running away isnt a cure all, and be ready to stand and fight. If You dont have to, dont. But id rather be proficient in Defending Myself, rather than proficient in backing Myself into a corner.

Uh, no, actually. If you want to learn to run, go jogging, train for a marathon or a sprint, or whatever. If you want to learn how to run away, that's quite a different idea, and does require specifically training it. It involves training awareness, understanding the options, being able to utilise the flight/fight response based on distancing, understanding the tactical approach, incorporating escape/fleeing into your drilling, and more. If you don't incorporate such things, then you are more likely to stand still when you should escape, and get cleaned up by the next wave.

 

[Tez3]

I find that a lot, not all MMA types have trained for the ring. Also many seem to emphasize BJJ. Bjj is a good system for what it is, but not what I would choose for the street.
Karate, Aikido, Japanese Jujitsu, Kungfu (many systems of it), silat, and many other systems were developed assuming that you would face multiple and armed attackers.
I would say that judo is a less desirable system for self defense then Jujistsu, ( though by say 4th dan or so in Kodokan I understand they have added back a lot of the jujitsu that was removed to make judo.) There is no perfect system, and each must choose for his or her self. I have heard a lot of people claim that things like the UFC or other cage type matches are like a real fight. That is of course ridiculous! Real fights are over in seconds, and they usually do not come as single attackers.

That said, a lot of cage fighters and MMA people have several years or more of TMA training before they decide to train for cage matches. So each case is different.

I would say if you want Self Defense MMA training is provably not your BEST choice, but if its all that is there go for it.

When people say MMA fights are like real fights it's in the context of them actually fighting full contatc, ie punching to KO their opponent and not just to touch and win points. The fact that an MMA fighter ( if someone tells you they are a cage fighter btw they aren't, if they say they are an MMA fighter then they are genuine, the wannabees say ''cage fighting, cagefighter and UFC fighting'') trains for 3-5 minutes round means they have stamina, fights may well be over in seconds, they may not be as I've seen for myself, the mass brawl type will go on for a while. They can quite easily be single attackers if they are travellers fights, they are known for going one on one. MMAers are quite capable of tossing the rules out of the window just as other competitive martial artists are. BJJ/Judo for the street... I think most people who practice these know that the best place in a fight is not on the ground, they do know however how to get out and up to their feet, they don't practice their style blindly.

 

[Cyriacus]

Uh, no, actually. If you want to learn to run, go jogging, train for a marathon or a sprint, or whatever. If you want to learn how to run away, that's quite a different idea, and does require specifically training it. It involves training awareness, understanding the options, being able to utilise the flight/fight response based on distancing, understanding the tactical approach, incorporating escape/fleeing into your drilling, and more. If you don't incorporate such things, then you are more likely to stand still when you should escape, and get cleaned up by the next wave.

I was being slightly sarcastic, and could have probably gone into more detail.

I could go on to bady words to express this, or I could save us both some effort and just say "Agreed".