The Gray Man...

[blindsage]

I don't like the word passive, I like the words proactive. Proactive may not need to pre emptively defending yourself (AKA attacking unprovoked) but it does mean take action before the need to find yourself in an SD situation.

It's evident you don't like the word passive, but the issue is that you take the dislike for that word and then seem to impose unfounded meaning on the ideas presented because of it.

OK based on what? Sure there is a differense between being passively aware and actively aware. Passively aware is when you are looking for a threat without looking like your looking for a threat. Active awareness is letting people around you know your taking notice.

No, awareness is awareness, you either are or you aren't. What you talking about is how you act in relation to the threat after you perceive it. You can't make that choice unless you're aware to begin with, it's not passive or active, it's just being aware.

Again based on your opinion, passively avoid a threat is avoid a threat after it becomes apperent. Actively avoiding a threat is avoiding a threat with multiple signals of potental danger appear.

No, not according to my opinion, according to the definition of the words. Yes, there are different ways to avoid a threat, but you either do it or you don't, it's always active. You are inventing definitions that don't exist in order to express certain ideas you have and it is interfering with the communication of them. Avoiding a threat after it becomes apparent, or before is still avoiding the threat and both require intent and action and therefore are active, there is no 'passive' version, you prefer one response over the other, no problem, but you're conflating defintions.

Wrong again, that where there is a huge difference. Passively blending is in as us said being unaware but trying to blend into your environment. A good example is a conversation I had with a friend of mine about racial profiling, he presented me with a strawman arguement that if I was in a bad neighborhood and several "black youths" entered the 7-11 I was in flashing gang signs and talking violently I wouldn't racially profile them as a threat compared to the clean cut white guy in a suit buy cigatettes.

If you are unaware then you cannot intentionally blend to avoid a threat, you have no reason to. I believe you are drawing a distinction between reactions (again) once you have perceive a potential threat, but you have to perceive it to begin with (an action, therefore 'active'). You don't like the idea of responding in a 'passive' way to a threat, again no problem, but your response is still 'active' either way. The Gray Man idea is not a 'passive' response concept.

My response was that the clean cut white guy was what seem a threat to me because he is out of place. Allot of people try to passively blend in trying to appear meek and not worthy of notice. Thats passively blending in, being the wall flower. Actively blending in is getting out on the dance floor, intermingling and interacting with those around. It presents the image that your not just part of an uncaring herd which will go unnoticed but that you are an active memory of the social cliche and that you will be noticed. You need not go over the top and create a spetical which shows that your not part of the herd anyway.

That a great example of not being a passive person, but again it is an example of how people react to the enviroment (or don't). You're interpreting this concept (the Gray Man) based on an imposed idea of passivity, not on the actual concept.

Thats pretty much correct...

Cool, glad we agree.

Thats depends on who you reference on the matter, those I been around lately don't see past suttle differences. You are 110% correct they are remarkably similar except for suttle differences. Most cases of where I've seen the Gray Man presented its presented as I've outlined. Passive more then Pro-active (guess thats a better word then simply active).

I think you're the one not getting the subtleties here. You hear 'passive' and it sets off all kinds of bells, I don't think you're really hearing the ideas.
There are ideas in the concept that coincide with yours exactly, and then there are ideas that conflict, but aren't necessarily wrong, they're just ideas you don't like.

 

[Draven]

Actually I am extremely aware of where the Gray Man concept comes from, it is also completely passive in nature. The concept is specifically linked with the Intelligence Services & Police work involving long-term sting operations. The principle is often and was first suggested by instructors who either brought the idea to the civilian self-defense industry or who simply copied the idea from service manuals.

Unfortunately, the reality is that the idea within the context of avoiding notice by casual observes or active observers looking for someone trying to infiltrate the organization remains the same. The "Gray Man Concept" is fine for infiltrating a group by pretending the be half-in or just another follower. However it serves no purpose in the way of detering a criminal assault.

More so, you can't apply a concept intended to passively resist an enemy force by blending in and gather intelligence to a self-defense situation, unless you plan to intentionally get become a target to fill out police reports which is just... Yeah.