The Body's Natural Weapons

[Tez3]

I believe more people are killed yearly by mosquitos and flies than any other 'creature'.

Top 10 Most Deadly Animals - Listverse

 

[K-man]

If a big dog was charging you, a single knee or kick would either land in an eye, nose, snout, knee, or at the very worst, the ribs. I would consider that an adequate dissuasion.

As the owner of a big German Shepherd .... good luck!

 

[Orange Lightning]

As the owner of a big German Shepherd .... good luck!

Even you were to get terribly injured, I think you could still get a big dog to leave you alone. Not so much "defeat" the dog. Just....get him to quit biting you. I don't think they would be an easy fight by any means. Thai kick a leg. Anything on any part of the face. Just grab a foot and yank/twist it left or right. They're easy to hurt. They're just tenacious, strong, and full of teeth. Daunting, but I think it's do-able. I'm not saying I wouldn't get horribly injured or anything. Getting knocked down would suck though. Not much around that.

I think I need to get better at expressing myself in these post form.

This reminds me of something kind of funny I found on youtube once. This person says he's inherited a "dog fighting style" back from when the hebrews crossed that sea with moses. It was like dog judo and it was hilarious. I can't find the link though. I'll post it if I find it. xD

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

You know as someone who also has a big dog I will tell you straight out you haven't seen speed until you are trying to touch one and they do not want to be touched. lol Can you kick, knee a dog? Maybe but if I was a betting man I would bet that the dog would have a good chunk of you before you are able to do anything! Then the bigger question would be after they have a chunk of you are you able to do anything?

 

[K-man]

Even you were to get terribly injured, I think you could still get a big dog to leave you alone. Not so much "defeat" the dog. Just....get him to quit biting you. I don't think they would be an easy fight by any means. Thai kick a leg. Anything on any part of the face. Just grab a foot and yank/twist it left or right. They're easy to hurt. They're just tenacious, strong, and full of teeth. Daunting, but I think it's do-able. I'm not saying I wouldn't get horribly injured or anything. Getting knocked down would suck though. Not much around that.

Yep! I'll just sit back with my coffee and take bets.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Even you were to get terribly injured, I think you could still get a big dog to leave you alone. Not so much "defeat" the dog. Just....get him to quit biting you. I don't think they would be an easy fight by any means. Thai kick a leg. Anything on any part of the face. Just grab a foot and yank/twist it left or right. They're easy to hurt. They're just tenacious, strong, and full of teeth. Daunting, but I think it's do-able. I'm not saying I wouldn't get horribly injured or anything. Getting knocked down would suck though. Not much around that.

I think I need to get better at expressing myself in these post form.

This reminds me of something kind of funny I found on youtube once. This person says he's inherited a "dog fighting style" back from when the hebrews crossed that sea with moses. It was like dog judo and it was hilarious. I can't find the link though. I'll post it if I find it. xD

I'm going to guess that the police and military K9 forces have encountered lots of people who shared your attitude.
Based on my experience patching up the bad guys after they've encountered K9 units, I'm going to say you're flat out wrong.

 

[Tez3]

I'm going to guess that the police and military K9 forces have encountered lots of people who shared your attitude.
Based on my experience patching up the bad guys after they've encountered K9 units, I'm going to say you're flat out wrong.

Oh yes! We have police dogs and we have guard dogs who are PAT which is 'Patrol Arm True', trained to bring a suspect/intruder down by biting onto the arm and stay locked on until the command to let go is given, they actually gnaw on the arm to maintain the grip though I'm not sure they have to or whether they just like to. They are also very handler protective, the handler is regarded as being armed when out on patrol with their dog. The dogs, either German or Belgian Shepherds and Rottweiler's are fast and relentless, they are attack dogs. The police dogs are less ferocious but will still attack on command and the chasnces of you fighting it off are Bob Hope and no hope.

 

[Orange Lightning]

Yep! I'll just sit back with my coffee and take bets.

Wow....I didn't realize.... that I was so horribly wrong..... Dam.
Specifically, I didn't know how accurate and effective they were about landing a bite in the first place, or how vicious they could be once they got you.
I do still think they could be easily injured, I was really wrong about how easy it would be to hit them at all. Especially after that initial bite. After that....you're just don't have much leverage, and there doesn't seem to be much one could do to change that.

That said, I do still think it's possible fend off a dog of this size. But....WAY harder and more precarious than I initially thought. Odds are basically nil if it gets a running start like that.

 

[Orange Lightning]

I'm going to guess that the police and military K9 forces have encountered lots of people who shared your attitude.
Based on my experience patching up the bad guys after they've encountered K9 units, I'm going to say you're flat out wrong.

How long can it take to recover from something like that?

 

[K-man]

Specifically, I didn't know how accurate and effective they were about landing a bite in the first place, or how vicious they could be once they got you.
I do still think they could be easily injured, I was really wrong about how easy it would be to hit them at all. Especially after that initial bite. After that....you're just don't have much leverage, and there doesn't seem to be much one could do to change that.

That said, I do still think it's possible fend off a dog of this size. But....WAY harder and more precarious than I initially thought. Odds are basically nil if it gets a running start like that.

A forty five kilo Shepherd or fifty five kilo Rotti swinging off your arm has a fair chance of breaking your structure, especially when they are moving fast.

The thing is, they are not really vicious. For them it's a game. In training they get rewarded for barking, they get rewarded for grabbing and not letting go, they get rewarded for bailing up a person hiding. That is just the start of guard dog training.

But the real issue with dogs has nothing to do with this type of training training. Dogs are pack animals. By their very nature they will die to save the pack. If you as pack leader are dominant then there is little chance that your dog will cause problems but if you appear frightened or alarmed the dog will jump in to protect its pack and its territory. The dog doesn't understand 'inappropriate' behaviour. I teach handlers not to look at their dogs when walking. Watching the dog puts the dog in charge. Ignoring the dog makes the dog watch you and makes you pack leader.

There are tools you can use to confuse a dog. Standing still, not eyeballing, yawning, talking softly etc will make most dogs stop. (I'm not talking about trained guard dogs here.) If you attempt to take on the dog it is just going to excite it more. You are playing the dog's game.

 

[BMhadoken]

Wow....I didn't realize.... that I was so horribly wrong..... Dam.
Specifically, I didn't know how accurate and effective they were about landing a bite in the first place, or how vicious they could be once they got you.
I do still think they could be easily injured, I was really wrong about how easy it would be to hit them at all. Especially after that initial bite. After that....you're just don't have much leverage, and there doesn't seem to be much one could do to change that.

This is why I say our best natural defenses were (and are) running and climbing. The human body is not built to offer a good fight against specially evolved predators. Weapons even the field but we can lose ours.

 

[Dirty Dog]

How long can it take to recover from something like that?

Depends on what has been chewed up. At a minimum, wounds are going to take weeks to heal, and bites have a high infection rate. There will almost certainly be scarring, the significance of which will, again, depend on what's been chewed up. If the chewed up bits include tendons, then the recovery will absolutely be longer, and full recovery may well be impossible.
And if they chewed on your face...

 

[K-man]

Depends on what has been chewed up. At a minimum, wounds are going to take weeks to heal, and bites have a high infection rate. There will almost certainly be scarring, the significance of which will, again, depend on what's been chewed up. If the chewed up bits include tendons, then the recovery will absolutely be longer, and full recovery may well be impossible.
And if they chewed on your face...

One guy here actually had a chunk completely taken out of his buttock at Schutzhund training. That has taken months to close and will always be a disfigurement.

 

[Dirty Dog]

One guy here actually had a chunk completely taken out of his buttock at Schutzhund training. That has taken months to close and will always be a disfigurement.

Missing chunks make repair a nightmare. Human skin is very elastic and can be stretched to cover somewhat, but the muscles underneath are not nearly as easy to stretch-to-fit. And the mouth of the sort of dog we're talking about here can certainly take out chunks that cannot be repaired. Those wounds will have to be grafted and/or allowed to heal by secondary intention. Function and appearance will certainly be permanently affected.
A dimple in your butt may be considered cute, but a crater...

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

I remember going through the Police Academy and during riot training, etc. they allowed the K-9 officers to use us as training examples for their dogs. That was a real eye opener on dog training and just how effective a trained dog could be.

On another level I have seen my dog move and if he doesn't want you to touch him while playing a game you just are not going to touch him. Literally you have no chance or slim to none. Plus he has a big brain to figure out angles and corners and what you are trying to do. They are simply amazing creatures.

 

[donald1]

Whaat?! I assume you mean no swords...as much as I like my fists holding a sword looks much more menacing

What are peoples natural weapon... crazy... you dont know what he/she is going to do... run in there and scratch someone or punch, bite, kick

Joking aside, humans have thumbs and knoledge.

 

[Blindside]

I am late to the party on this one, but this is one of my favorite K9 training vids so I had to share:

One of my friends is a K9 officer, his dog Ziva is an impressive German shepherd.

 

[Orange Lightning]

Whaat?! I assume you mean no swords...as much as I like my fists holding a sword looks much more menacing

What are peoples natural weapon... crazy... you dont know what he/she is going to do... run in there and scratch someone or punch, bite, kick

Joking aside, humans have thumbs and knoledge.

The thread got totally side tracked from the original idea. The idea was to discuss what people thought were the most important parts of the body for certain tasks to try to gain greater insight into an instinctive or natural fighting method. Examples - The most important muscles for blocking in particular methods (deltoids? forearms? shoulders? Traps? Abs?) or in general, what the body's natural primary weapon would be or if it has one at all, or the trunk muscles like chest back and shoulders because you use them for almost everything. What in the world are our nails for? Were we actually meant to punch things? That last one was actually discussed.
Anything would be on the table. Instincts, body parts, any physical feature that you thought gave us any kind of advantage for fighting. Average heights and widths of people, appendage length or size, whatever. Eye color, foot shape, hand shape, general hardiness and resistance to pain and shock, aggression, or a lack of it.Hair even. What if you could use your hair to make crude knots? That one's a bit of a stretch.


The thread ended up being whether or not people could go toe to toe, unarmed, against animals because I had some poorly written phrasing. Or perhaps I forgot to explain some critical detail. I don't really know.

Obviously, we have a lot going for us with our thumbs, brains, and ability to function as a team. That stuff = inventions that give us an edge over other creatures. Like spears. I've been told that we evolved the way we did in large part because we kept trying to defeat ourselves, and the best way to do that was by getting smarter. And all the other stuff. I don't know how much truth there is to that though. Haven't researched it.

Biting! Good one to bring up. We talked about that one too. It was pointed out that many apes and monkeys have much longer arms than us, have crazy teeth, but don't have hands that would make for effective punching. To me, this means that longer arms would be less effective for fighting in the manner that we do, but make grappling to go in for biting less viable.

 

[Tez3]

Here's a 'vicious', hand to hand fight between gorillas...well until the silverback decides they are disturbing his peace lol. Kids eh. shows some good skills and you've got to love the little one.

 

[Orange Lightning]

Here's a 'vicious', hand to hand fight between gorillas...well until the silverback decides they are disturbing his peace lol. Kids eh. shows some good skills and you've got to love the little one.

That's adorable and kind of hilarious.