Wolves would run down a Cheetah and corner it, then pretty much #### it up.
The Body's Natural Weapons
- Thread starter Orange Lightning
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Of course both species may well be somewhat confused, not knowing what the other is.
The Wolf has teeth for all occasions
The Wolf has teeth for all occasions
If it gets to Africa it can also swim exceedingly well! Cheetahs don't swim
My son in law's boss's wife has a cheetah.
If it gets to Africa it can also swim exceedingly well! Cheetahs don't swim
My son in law's boss's wife has a cheetah.
Oh.
Wondering if cavemen had couches then. The potato then crisps. Know how dog the feels
Wondering if cavemen had couches then. The potato then crisps. Know how dog the feels
Ah but they had fire and probably nice warm animal skins to lie on plus scraps of food they didn't have to hunt for. Dogs are smart but cats smarter, they have the best of both world, they can be 'domesticated' and wild at the same time.
Our ability to get food and survive has been tied heavily to our ancestors various degrees of tool use, basically from the moment we started diverging from the path modern apes took. For hunting, even before stone spearheads we could sharpen long bits of wood or pick up something heavy as a club, but mostly it was endurance running and probably some scavenging off the more competent apex predators. And even before that, they could use a rock to dig out a termite mound, or throw it to knock down fruits and seed pods, etc.
How would we have dealt with a predator trying to eat us? Well, the same way most prey animals do today. Gather the tribe against the threat, staying in a group, running faster than our sacrificial tribemates, and climbing trees. At any point in history, your odds of fighting off an apex predator one-on-one after it gets the drop on you are laughably bad. Even with a spear in hand, we're soft and all our important areas are easy-access.
How would we have dealt with a predator trying to eat us? Well, the same way most prey animals do today. Gather the tribe against the threat, staying in a group, running faster than our sacrificial tribemates, and climbing trees. At any point in history, your odds of fighting off an apex predator one-on-one after it gets the drop on you are laughably bad. Even with a spear in hand, we're soft and all our important areas are easy-access.
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Actually, most "apex predators" aren't that interested in us as prey- maybe that wasn't always true, but it is today....fact is, a stick is usually plenty to fight off a mountain lion or black bear, because they're just not that interested, and we're too much work...this is changing for the mountain lion, which is an ambush predator that is becoming more and more interested in humans as we continue to encroach upon their normal habitat.....it's not unusual to see them in town in Los Alamos or even Santa Fe, and they'll snatch a kid, given a chance....most of the time, though, attacks by predators aren't actually predation, but responding to a perceived threat. A few years back, , a guy on the Winsor trail in Santa Fe managed-over the course of what had to be the longest 15 minutes of his life-to keep a mountain lion at bay by backing away from it while jabbing a walking pole in its face. He'd likely come upon it with a fresh kill that it was protecting......walking pole. Just sayin'
True today, wasn't for most of our history. A few hundred thousand years ago your early proto-humans were a lot smaller, a lot dumber, and if you go with the current popular theory, springing up in Northern Africa, which is right up with Australia in terms of "here be dragons." Our ancestors would have been easy lunch for most of the major predators back then, or more likely a midnight snack since most predators operate much more effectively at night than humans can, especially before we figured out fire.
And I'll grant that your guy up there is an oddity, cougars, etc. don't really prey on humans today unless they're starving, desperate and an opportunity all but drops into their lap. As you say that guy most likely interrupted the cat's dinner, which is dangerous but not remotely the same circumstances, or nearly as dangerous, as an ambush from a predator that's committed to having you for dinner.
I think the main reason modern day apex predators are so unlikely to attack us is pretty simple.
We've long since killed any critters that didn't learn to run at the first sign of man.
One of the reasons I enjoy SCUBA diving is that the critters underwater don't recognize us as predators, so they don't flee.
They also don't (are you reading this, Xue?) see us as food.
We've long since killed any critters that didn't learn to run at the first sign of man.
One of the reasons I enjoy SCUBA diving is that the critters underwater don't recognize us as predators, so they don't flee.
They also don't (are you reading this, Xue?) see us as food.
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And yet humans wiped out most of the megafauna on the North American continent......and yet, there is evidence that humans were directly responsible for the worldwide extinction of the smilodon, that we simply and unilaterally decided upon and pursued the extinction of the sabre-toothed cat.
No, we were the apex predators, even before we learned how to vocalize, which only made us more efficient,......
I believe by the time humans started spreading into Europe and the Americas, we had figured out how to create fire, we'd found the benefits of clothing, and we'd learned how to make proper stone/bone spears. With weapons, humans can begin to do more than scavenge. It becomes realistic to kill animals our own size or bigger. And yes, as a group the tribe can begin to oppose some of the big predators, even as hyenas will do with leopards and cheetahs today. At that stage the tools themselves are a complete game-changer.
Unfortunately I haven't studied the evolution of human language and communication very much, but I would imagine that it would have come about rather parallel to our improving tool-use, as the more inventive members of the tribe strive to pass on what they've learned, with the language becoming more complex as the need to describe more advanced concepts arises. Regardless, I'll have to earmark that topic for future study.
I suspect that even before humanity developed something that would be considered a language by scholars today, we had ways to communicate. There is far too much evidence that lots of "non-verbal" critters communicate with each other. Dolphins. Apes. Chimps. Any number of pack animals. Ants. Bees.
As individuals, catching and killing small game would have been possible. As pack hunters, larger game would have been realistic.
I suspect that the competition with other apex predators was one of the driving forces behind the development of both language and tools.
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Orange Lightning
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Most animals are still afraid of us today because anything that came near us usually died. Like what Dirty Dog said. Dog's, for example, were wolves that neither ran nor tried to attack us. They just...stayed near, and begged for food. Wolves that weren't hostile towards humans could survive around them. Which is a lot more than most animals can say. Eventually they became dogs that way.
Things like bears are afraid of us too. It's...different though. It's debatable whether or not a human with a weapon could defeat an predator like a lion, depending on the weapon and who's using it. But even so, we just aren't worth the effort. Even if a bear or puma were to win, it could cost them an eye or a leg. Permanent disfigurement for a single meal isn't nearly worth it, assuming they even would win.
Anyone ever hear that legend/story/myth (I don't know which one) about the Indian man that wrestled a tiger? Or Mas Oyama fighting bulls? Can't help but think about that stuff.
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Attacking cougar killed with pocket knife - seattlepi.com
Alabama Man Fends Off Panther Attack With Knife Field Stream
Man armed with knife kills hungry bear - Bring a knife to a bear fight
Note: in all these cases, the knife was a 3 inch pocket knife.
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Orange Lightning
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Thanks for the links.
Something that many people forget to take into account with the "human versus predator" discussion, is that the animal's nearest target is it's head. The human's is their weapon. It's actually harder for me to picture losing, given you have the chance to square off with it first. Animals are extremely exposed. If a big dog was charging you, a single knee or kick would either land in an eye, nose, snout, knee, or at the very worst, the ribs. I would consider that an adequate dissuasion.
Bears are bigger.
But nevertheless, I've always believed I could fend one off with just my staff or knife. Or at least have a pretty good chance. I've given the matter a lot of thought. I have a bit of a problem with bears and coyotes wear I live. It quiets the mind to be prepared for them. Even just getting the mail, I always have a knife and a stick with me.
Just to note, I think a short, walking stick length would be better than a staff for fighting a bear. Jo length-ish. I see a staff lacking stopping power with pokes, and hitting the wrong targets during a rush, due to it's length. Instead of the eyes, snout, etc., I'd have a high chance of hitting the back, belly, or meatier parts. Even managing to land solid face blows, it would be easy to get caught tight.
