The BJJ Research Labs answer your questions: biting vs armbar

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Tony Dismukes

Tony Dismukes

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A tiger will bit you before you get an arm bar on her. You don't wait for your opponent to get arm bar on you. You try to bite on his finger ASAP.

One guy tried to use his fingers to poke my teacher's eyes. My teacher used one hand to "redirect" his hand toward his mouth and bite off one of his opponent's fingers.

When your opponent tries to use his hands to hold on your arm, you can redirect his arm by using your other free arm and obtain his hand. When you use your free arm to pull your opponent's arm, either you can

- pull his hand near to your mouth, or
- pull your mouth toward his hand.

In other words, you have 2 arms and your opponent also has 2 arms, If your opponent can use 2 arms to get your 1 arm, your other free arm should can also be able to interrupt his arm bar.

Of course all these are theory. More testing will be needed.
I have thought for a while that if I was ever in a life or death fight where I need to inflict as much damage as possible in order to survive, then biting fingers would be an option. I'm pretty certain I could at least inflict disabling damage on a finger if I got a proper chomp on it, and I periodically see openings for setting up a finger bite while grappling.

It would have to be pretty desperate circumstances, though. You have to consider not only the potential health risks, but the possibility of serious legal consequences as well. Probably better to reserve that awareness for making sure my fingers don't get bitten.
 
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Tony Dismukes

Tony Dismukes

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How about as a way to prevent it from being fully applied? Move the bite just a little bit earlier...
Do you have a specific setup in mind? Most of the arm bar setups I use don't provide any good position for the receiver to apply a bite before the arm bar is in place.
 

Kung Fu Wang

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in a life or death fight ...
Time has changed. During the ancient time, all MA matters should be handled within the MA community. If someone tried to get the law involved, that person would have serious trouble after that.

During the ancient time, this kind of dirty moves were used on "unfriendly challengers". If whenever someone challenged you, that person got permanent injury (such as lose a finger), after the words had been spread out, nobody will challenge you any more.

This may sound violence. As old Chinese saying said, "The moment that have stepped into the MA world, you no longer be able to control yourself."
 

JR 137

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I think I'll pass on testing how much trauma my testicles can survive. I've seen people win fights after taking hard shots to the groin, but the pain still sets in once the adrenaline has worn off. Also, my wife has vetoed any experiments with the potential for permanent damage to parts she holds the rights to. However if you have a specific question about whether the nuts are a viable target in a given position or situation, then I might be able to devise some tests.

I had my boys grabbed and pulled on 3 different occasions during wrestling matches. I got the pin 2 out of 3 times; the one time I didn't was because time expired. That was over 20 years ago, and I can still remember it too vividly. It was pretty painful while it was happening, but that was nothing compared to afterward.

If I had a joint lock/neck crank applied in a real situation, I could have easily applied enough force to snap the joint, thereby getting them to let go, even if it wasn't the grabbing hand.

But don't take my word for it. Substitute groin grab for bite in your original post and see what happens. I don't know enough Jujitsu to ask you to try it out in specific scenarios. I'm just thinking of myth busting those guys who say "just grab his balls." Better you than me :)
 
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gpseymour

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A tiger will bite you before you even try to do anything. You don't wait for your opponent to get arm bar on you. You try to bite on his finger ASAP.

One guy tried to use his fingers to poke my teacher's eyes. My teacher used one hand to "redirect" his opponent's hand toward his mouth and bite off one of his opponent's fingers.

When your opponent tries to use his hands to hold on your arm, you can redirect his arm by using your other free arm and obtain his hand. When you use your free arm to pull your opponent's arm, either you can

- pull his hand near to your mouth, or
- pull your mouth toward his hand.

In other words, you have 2 arms and your opponent also has 2 arms, If your opponent can use 2 arms to get your 1 arm, your other free arm should also be able to interrupt his arm bar.

Of course all these are theory. More testing will be needed.
That's not really a counter to an arm bar, it's an overall tactical approach. It has weaknesses (like any will) - directing someone's hand toward your mouth is problematic if they're punching. :D
 

gpseymour

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I have thought for a while that if I was ever in a life or death fight where I need to inflict as much damage as possible in order to survive, then biting fingers would be an option. I'm pretty certain I could at least inflict disabling damage on a finger if I got a proper chomp on it, and I periodically see openings for setting up a finger bite while grappling.

It would have to be pretty desperate circumstances, though. You have to consider not only the potential health risks, but the possibility of serious legal consequences as well. Probably better to reserve that awareness for making sure my fingers don't get bitten.
In most cases where you could bite a finger, you must have enough control to attack the finger in other ways. A broken finger isn't as dramatic, but it still reduces the capacity of that limb and introduces pain (if they are capable of feeling it) without most of the risks you point out.
 

Kung Fu Wang

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directing someone's hand toward your mouth is problematic if they're punching. :D
This is why in Chinese wrestling, your fighting stand is using 2 loose fists.

Chang_zombie_guard_1.jpg


and not use 2 open hands.

Kung_Fu_fighting_stance.jpg
 
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Tony Dismukes

Tony Dismukes

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I had my boys grabbed and pulled on 3 different occasions during wrestling matches. I got the pin 2 out of 3 times; the one time I didn't was because time expired. That was over 20 years ago, and I can still remember it too vividly. It was pretty painful while it was happening, but that was nothing compared to afterward.

If I had a joint lock/neck crank applied in a real situation, I could have easily applied enough force to snap the joint, thereby getting them to let go, even if it wasn't the grabbing hand.

But don't take my word for it. Substitute groin grab for bite in your original post and see what happens. I don't know enough Jujitsu to ask you to try it out in specific scenarios. I'm just thinking of myth busting those guys who say "just grab his balls." Better you than me :)
I don't feel like running a test where I let someone get a grip on my balls then see if I can inflict enough damage to make them let go. Regardless of the results, there's going to be a lot of pain and suffering going around for both parties.

I do try to test whether someone has the opportunity to get hold of my balls in the first place. I was grappling with a friend the other day and was thoroughly dominating the match but was disturbed a couple of times to realize that I had inadvertently put my groin in a vulnerable position. Even though we weren't practicing with groin attacks being allowed, I quickly worked to adjust my position so that the groin grab was no longer possible. I don't want to develop bad habits.
 

JR 137

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I don't feel like running a test where I let someone get a grip on my balls then see if I can inflict enough damage to make them let go. Regardless of the results, there's going to be a lot of pain and suffering going around for both parties.

I do try to test whether someone has the opportunity to get hold of my balls in the first place. I was grappling with a friend the other day and was thoroughly dominating the match but was disturbed a couple of times to realize that I had inadvertently put my groin in a vulnerable position. Even though we weren't practicing with groin attacks being allowed, I quickly worked to adjust my position so that the groin grab was no longer possible. I don't want to develop bad habits.

I know, Tony. My tone of sarcasm doesn't effectively come through in print (or text). If it was a face to face conversation, we'd both be chuckling when I first brought it up, you'd have a Buka-like comeback, then it would've been over.
 

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I don't feel like running a test where I let someone get a grip on my balls then see if I can inflict enough damage to make them let go. Regardless of the results, there's going to be a lot of pain and suffering going around for both parties.

I do try to test whether someone has the opportunity to get hold of my balls in the first place. I was grappling with a friend the other day and was thoroughly dominating the match but was disturbed a couple of times to realize that I had inadvertently put my groin in a vulnerable position. Even though we weren't practicing with groin attacks being allowed, I quickly worked to adjust my position so that the groin grab was no longer possible. I don't want to develop bad habits.
This is something I see ignored sometimes - making adjustments to avoid secondary attacks. There are versions of our techniques I demonstrate just so students know why I don't teach them. Once I show them where it places me, and how easily the person I'm trying to control could grab my groin or the ankle of a lightened foot, they understand why we don't go there.
 
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Tony Dismukes

Tony Dismukes

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I know, Tony. My tone of sarcasm doesn't effectively come through in print (or text). If it was a face to face conversation, we'd both be chuckling when I first brought it up, you'd have a Buka-like comeback, then it would've been over.
I figured it was probably a joke, but thought I should check in case there was an actual research question to go with the humor.
 

Brian R. VanCise

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How about as a way to prevent it from being fully applied? Move the bite just a little bit earlier...

Once that leg comes over and is on you and the arm is being attacked you are in trouble trying to bite. Focus has to be on protecting your arm and getting out of that position. Now, before that happens.... well that opens up the game. Just as once you protect your arm and have moved to getting out of that position well that opens things up as well. New possibilities.
 
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