futsaowingchun
Black Belt
people have requested I use a big guy in my videos...well here is the biggest guy I could find..
Testing the root/structure
- Thread starter futsaowingchun
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Yep, that's a BIG guy!
Now I Just wish I could see your whole body including your feet during this clip. Maybe you couldn't fit all that in the screen and still include your large partner?
yeah, big guy for sure - can't fault ya for using a small guy on this one!
It looks like your backhand is supporting your front hand behind the forearm and is what's really taking the load when the front had starts folding (?) If so, I'd say while this is showing a 'form of structure', some might view this as 'cheating'
When I am testing WC structure on a student, they would have to do it without the back hand supporting and see if the front hand alignment can withstand the pressure on it's own (as long as the test is also fair for the given structure, facing, etc).
It looks like your backhand is supporting your front hand behind the forearm and is what's really taking the load when the front had starts folding (?) If so, I'd say while this is showing a 'form of structure', some might view this as 'cheating'
When I am testing WC structure on a student, they would have to do it without the back hand supporting and see if the front hand alignment can withstand the pressure on it's own (as long as the test is also fair for the given structure, facing, etc).
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OP
OP
futsaowingchun
Black Belt
The guy filed it
The guy filmed it to close. I asked him to make sure to get my feet in but he didn't..I had my right foot forward and my left leg took all that weight he was coming down on me.
OP
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futsaowingchun
Black Belt
yeah, big guy for sure - can't fault ya for using a small guy on this one!
It looks like your backhand is supporting your front hand behind the forearm and is what's really taking the load when the front had starts folding (?) If so, I'd say while this is showing a 'form of structure', some might view this as 'cheating'
When I am testing WC structure on a student, they would have to do it without the back hand supporting and see if the front hand alignment can withstand the pressure on it's own (as long as the test is also fair for the given structure, facing, etc).
This guy is way to heavy!!! it was like trying to hold back a small car..your right I had to support or reinforce my right arm with my left. because he was just to big..
OP
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futsaowingchun
Black Belt
Anyway, I wanted to see if I could do it. If I can hold him most people are very easy.
Fair enough.
But then it begs the question, what use is the structure if it doesn't hold up? If the structure is sound and the test is correct, size shouldn't matter. Now, I'm not saying I could/couldn't do any better against a person of that size without changing to something else, but now I'm wondering what's the value in the demo...
johnsimmons
White Belt
It seems my understanding of structure is different.
OP
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futsaowingchun
Black Belt
Structure does work I just proved it. You also need to realize everything has a limit. I do not have supper human abilities just normal ones. Size does matter, you can not change the laws of physics. Forget all that chi crap you see and tricks on youtube this is reality. But an Untrained person would not be able to hold a 300+ lbs man..
Why should you have to oppose such a great force? In my lineage, we yield before superior force. "Structure" is not rigidity.... it is just maintaining kinetic linkages, body alignment and proper positioning so that you can easily bend or move to dissolve such heavy force. Trying to stand your ground in front of vastly greater power is a fool's errand.
Danny T
Senior Master
Geezer, we also test the ability to hold pressure with structure however, that isn't what we do with the pressure in reality. Just shows how one can relax yet maintain. We bent or blend to dissolve but it is awesome to see someone who is relaxed yet unmoved by the pressure. It one can maintain one can direct the force to where ever one wants.
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futsaowingchun
Black Belt
Testing one root is very traditional training nothing new .
OP
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futsaowingchun
Black Belt
What is your understanding of structure
Yes, and we also "test" structure. My point was actually in agreement with your response to JP when you commented about there being physical limits. Working with somebody who is that much bigger, you better be able to flex or yield and redirect the force or you will get crushed.
BTW, Futsao, from the previous videos you look like a big guy, I'm guessing 6' or 6'1" and 225lbs. And that guy you are working with looks at least 6'5" and 350LBS. or bigger. We've got a guy almost that big in our DTE group. We call him "Tiny". He's probably 6'3" and 280. A little fat, to be sure, but strong, fast and skilled. Now I'm 5'8', a little fat myself
, and when I work with him.... well, ...basically I'm screwed! Good thing he's a nice guy.
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Agree! When a force comes toward you, you can
1. resist against it. This is force against force.
2. yield into it, This is too conservative. You just can't "keep yielding"
3. borrow the force and take advantage on it. This will give you permanent solution.
IMO, 3 > 2 > 1.
In stead of testing your opponent's "pushing", what method will you use to test your opponent's "pulling"? Should you also need to have strong rooting and body structure to be able to against your opponent's "pulling"?
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futsaowingchun
Black Belt
Pushing pulling no difference..rooting is rooting..
Disagree!
When your opponent
- "pushes" you, you can transfer that force down to your back leg and into the ground.
- "pulls" you, since you can't transfer that force down to the ground, what will you do?
This is why we can find so many "group pushing" demo. But we can't find even one "group pulling" demo. Why?
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futsaowingchun
Black Belt
Of course it's the same. What makes you think I can't root myself...it's very easy..you have to change stance..that's the answer..like the low horseDisagree!
When your opponent
- "pushes" you, you can transfer that force down to your back leg and into the ground.
- "pulls" you, since you can't transfer that force down to the ground, what will you do?
This is why we can find so many "group pushing" demo. But we can't find even one "group pulling" demo. Why?
OP
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futsaowingchun
Black Belt
Yes, and we also "test" structure. My point was actually in agreement with your response to JP when you commented about there being physical limits. Working with somebody who is that much bigger, you better be able to flex or yield and redirect the force or you will get crushed.
BTW, Futsao, from the previous videos you look like a big guy, I'm guessing 6' or 6'1" and 225lbs. And that guy you are working with looks at least 6'5" and 350LBS. or bigger. We've got a guy almost that big in our DTE group. We call him "Tiny". He's probably 6'3" and 280. A little fat, to be sure, but strong, fast and skilled. Now I'm 5'8', a little fat myself
I'm 6ft not sure sure my weight..I don't want to know. Haha..but it's up there..that guy id like 6'5" over 300 lbs easy. I think problem more like 400lbs.
