term "kai" (school)

donald1

Senior Master
Joined
Jan 20, 2013
Messages
3,533
Reaction score
810
in class i was discussing with my instructor about how our school name was goju ryu and goju Kai. and he said it meant "school" he mentioned that some schools say that its schools in japan. but it means "school" not "Japanese school" or school in japan"... or does it?
 

Carol

Crazy like a...
MT Mentor
Lifetime Supporting Member
MTS Alumni
Joined
Jan 16, 2006
Messages
20,311
Reaction score
541
Location
NH
The term 会 is closer to 'society' or 'gathering'. It does not mean school.
 

K-man

Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
6,193
Reaction score
1,223
Location
Australia
in class i was discussing with my instructor about how our school name was goju ryu and goju Kai. and he said it meant "school" he mentioned that some schools say that its schools in japan. but it means "school" not "Japanese school" or school in japan"... or does it?
The Goju Kai was the organisation put together by Gogen Yamaguchi in Japan. While technically the Goju Kai is the same style as 'Goju Ryu', it serves to distinguish it from the Okinawan Goju. Although Ryu could mean school it is probably closer to 'style' in its meaning. When I was training under the Goju Kai we were told Kai just meant 'organisation'.
:asian:
 

TKDTony2179

Blue Belt
Joined
May 18, 2013
Messages
263
Reaction score
2
Just sounds confusing to me. I always thought that Ryu meant school. Maybe not. Learn something new everday.
 

Chris Parker

Grandmaster
Joined
Feb 18, 2008
Messages
6,259
Reaction score
1,104
Location
Melbourne, Australia
Nope. Ryu (流) is also pronounced "nagashi", and means "flow" (or, in context, "style"), referring to a "flow of knowledge from one person/group to another". A particular martial system (or a non-martial one, for that matter) can be referred to as a "ryu", but that doesn't mean "school".
 

DennisBreene

3rd Black Belt
Lifetime Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2012
Messages
956
Reaction score
19
Location
Illinois
Nope. Ryu (流) is also pronounced "nagashi", and means "flow" (or, in context, "style"), referring to a "flow of knowledge from one person/group to another". A particular martial system (or a non-martial one, for that matter) can be referred to as a "ryu", but that doesn't mean "school".

Is literal translation possible, particularly in the sense of finding a synonym? It seems as though the explanations are tending to hone in on a conceptual target without finding the "bull's-eye".
 

Chris Parker

Grandmaster
Joined
Feb 18, 2008
Messages
6,259
Reaction score
1,104
Location
Melbourne, Australia
All words are conceptual, and all miss the exact target they're aiming for... that's one of the beautiful things about them. But really, all a word is is a sound, or a string of sounds, used to communicate concepts, ideals, feelings, and other intangibles with others who don't have the benefit of being in your head and your skin. Languages don't really lend themselves to a direct replacement of one word (from one language) with another (in another language)... although concepts can be used to translate from on lexicon across to a second. So all translation has to be a way of recognizing the concepts of a source language and applying the sounds for a similar or related concept in the receiving language. Literal translation isn't genuinely possible at any time.
 

DennisBreene

3rd Black Belt
Lifetime Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2012
Messages
956
Reaction score
19
Location
Illinois
All words are conceptual, and all miss the exact target they're aiming for... that's one of the beautiful things about them. But really, all a word is is a sound, or a string of sounds, used to communicate concepts, ideals, feelings, and other intangibles with others who don't have the benefit of being in your head and your skin. Languages don't really lend themselves to a direct replacement of one word (from one language) with another (in another language)... although concepts can be used to translate from on lexicon across to a second. So all translation has to be a way of recognizing the concepts of a source language and applying the sounds for a similar or related concept in the receiving language. Literal translation isn't genuinely possible at any time.

Agreed. My post was a somewhat clumsy attempt to point that out. What we say is symbolic of what we think. But we also tend to think in the symbols of our language and that can result in the intrinsic "concept" of an entity being somewhat different when "conceived" of in one language versus another. It seems somewhat unproductive to try to push for an exact word in English that will represent a word/concept in Japanese unless it is an agreed upon convention. Translation is always going to be subject to issues of nuance.
 

Latest Discussions

Top