Teaching Kenpo to Non-Kenpoist

[Michael Billings]

What do you think? If you only have a weekend to teach (like at a camp or seminar) and have several 1-1/2 hour classes to the same students:

1. What part of Kenpo would YOU want to teach?

2. What would YOU want to be taught?

Several assumptions here, i.e. your students are all martial artists and they range from beginners through advanced, all in the same class.

Also, interestingly enough, they want actual Kenpo to be taught, not a derivitive of "Kenpo on the Ground" or "Kenpo Cross-training".

Thoughts? Suggestions?

 

[Robbo]

Mr. Billings,

I would cover,

1) 3 points of view (forget the term right now)
2) Environmental Considerations
3) 8 ranges of combat
4) using natural movements in self defense (covered in infinite insights)
5) to regognize and utilize probably the most used way to generate power - gravitational marriage

Sorry for the brevity in the answer but break just ended at work here

Rob

 

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

Well, since these students are already martial artists, this means that they would be cross-training now wouldn't it?

Anyway. To you topic: Since there are all ranges of ability, I would have to start at the beginning with introductory material. I would stress some of the key concepts that Robbo mentioned and maybe do some more advanced basics or combinations with some of the more advanced students.

Kenpo is a language all its own. Martial Artists from other styles will need to rethink some basic assumptions about how they move.

 

[MartialArtsGuy]

Hello Mr. Billings

1. Since time is limited I'd take kenpo principles and apply them to the basics that these people already know. I would use certain kenpo techniques as reenforcing examples of what was taught.

I would want to make sure they are familliar with the major kenpo concepts and I'd make sure they knew how to apply them to what they already know. Four examples that I would cover are "point of origin", "economy of motion", "reverse motion", and "the various checks" I consider these to be some of the most important kenpo principles. In my humble opinion of course.

2. If I were one of the students to be taught, I would want to be taught the theory behind the art and I'd want to see how it could benefit me/work with what I already know.

 

[Michael Billings]

Yes, lets assume they do want to be cross-trained, but don't want me doing it. Clear as mud huh? They want me to present American Kenpo, and they will pick and choose. I hav no problem with this, or cross-training. I just don't choose to look at it from outside the American Kenpo framework or paradigm.

Respectfully,
-MB

 

[Robbo]

You could also,

Take a technique that emobodies as many priniceples and concepts as possible and teach it with the complete breakdown. They would come out of the lesson being able to do a technique from AK and be able to apply all the concepts and principles to anything else they are currently doing. Or at least re-examine what they are doing in regards to the principles or concepts they have just learned (or made aware of)

Rob

 

[Michael Billings]

Thanks, good suggestions all. But what if the basics they practice violate, or do not utilize the Principles, Concepts and Theories? I do not want to tell them what they do is wrong ... rather add to the repetoire they already have.

SD Techniques, and pull P,C, &T out of them. Nomenclature, some is good, but I don't want to overwhelm ... or do I?

So in this venue, a showcase if you will, foundations of movement, some Kenpo Tools, Web of Knowledge by Type of Attack, etc.?

What techniques would you teach?
What Principles, Concepts, or Theories?

Orig Posted by Robbo

1) 3 points of view (forget the term right now)
2) Environmental Considerations
3) 8 ranges of combat
4) using natural movements in self defense (covered in infinite insights)
5) to regognize and utilize probably the most used way to generate power - gravitational marriage

I would add Rotation and Body Momentum and moving through the 3 dimensions

Orig Posted by MartialArtsGuy

... make sure they are familliar with the major kenpo concepts and I'd make sure they knew how to apply them to what they already know ... I would cover are "point of origin", "economy of motion", "reverse motion", and "the various checks"

Good suggestions, there is just so much. But I like your looking at it in the context of what you would want to be taught.

Thanks All & Keep 'em coming.

Which would you like to learn as a student?

-MB

 

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

MIchael: My first sentence was a little too flippant. Sorry.

As someone who has started over from scratch a few times, I think that you need to do the same with this hypothetical class. Start them from scratch with Kenpo concepts, basics, and techniques. Teach them the way you would any beginner. After a while, you will better guage their skill and ability to transition to the Kenpo way and can introduce more advanced material as appropriate.

 

[MartialArtsGuy]

martialTALKguy did you just call me martial talk guy. lol:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Maybe i have been posting too much.

I see what you mean by their basics being in conflict with kenpo principles. Maybe I was not detailed enough, but I mean't that you could use their basics as the frame work and tweak here and there. I hope our definition of "basics" is the same. For example, If they throw a reverse punch and than bring it back to the chambered position, maybe you could show them that they can bring it back to a checking position or that they can keep the motion going and go into another strike.

Rather than tell them that they are "wrong" show them what else they can do that may be of more use.

Is it safe to say you only have 4, 1 and 1/2 hour classes with this group and thats it. Thats 2 classes per day on Sat. and Sun. on one weekend seminar/camp???????

MartialTalkGuy :rofl: :rofl:

 

[MartialArtsGuy]

I forgot to mention that applying the family groupings general patterns to what they all ready know could help. I'm guessing you only have around 6 to 8 hours to work with them, and that makes it pretty tough. Very interesting though.

 

[Nightingale]

Originally posted by Old Fat Kenpoka
Well, since these students are already martial artists, this means that they would be cross-training now wouldn't it?

:deadhorse

 

[Michael Billings]

Whoops! I swear I thought it was MartialTalk Guy

Yes, that is the time I will probably have. I have no real issues about seeing where they are, what we have in common, and where to go from there. But as students of the Arts, I thought it might be interesting to get yalls perspective and guidence. I never rule out where I will learn new material or conceptual ways of presenting our Art.

Oss

 

[Michael Billings]

I took it the way you meant it

I knew what you meant. You know I do cross-train ... but not really. We have to agree to disagree, but I have never had a problem with those who want to pursue this.

So now I wanted some feedback from those guys who do it all the time ... and what yall would look for:asian: .

-MB

 

[Touch Of Death]

First of all I would take on a John Sepulvida seminar trait and loose the ego (if you got one). As someone stated before, starting from the perspective that you are working with agroup of people whom are doing things wrong will show through and make things a bit counter productive. I would devote each half hour session to "one" lesson of your choosing. As groups form and you start seeing things you like, point that out to the the individual and show him a thing or two about how he is on the right track and where he or she can go with their discovery.

 

[kenpo2dabone]

I would not worry about what they had learned in the past unless they asked questions like "we block a right straight punch like this why di you do it like that?" at which time I would address them as appropriately as possible with out knocking their chosen form of MA. Taking them through the yellow belt will give them a very good idea of what Kenpo is and if it is something that they wish to persue further. Any technique can be taken to a black belt level for the advanced students on a one on one basis as they work the material on each other. I would not get into the technical stuff as much unless questions were asked. The technical side of kenpo can be overwhelming which is why it is taught over several years and not hours. I might not get through the entire yellow belt in said amount of time but it would still be a good guide to follow.

Salute,
Mike Miler UKF

 

[Touch Of Death]

Originally posted by kenpo2dabone
I would not worry about what they had learned in the past unless they asked questions like "we block a right straight punch like this why di you do it like that?" at which time I would address them as appropriately as possible with out knocking their chosen form of MA. Taking them through the yellow belt will give them a very good idea of what Kenpo is and if it is something that they wish to persue further. Any technique can be taken to a black belt level for the advanced students on a one on one basis as they work the material on each other. I would not get into the technical stuff as much unless questions were asked. The technical side of kenpo can be overwhelming which is why it is taught over several years and not hours. I might not get through the entire yellow belt in said amount of time but it would still be a good guide to follow.

Salute,
Mike Miler UKF

On this note perhaps you could explain the benefits of blocking on the upside or the downside of the circle. As I have stated before and never got an answer. Perhaps you could start by telling me why you guys do inward blocks on the downside of the circle. I will admit it gives you a return motion from hell but the location of impact is what bothers me. This question may come up in one form or the other.

 

[Michael Billings]

I needed or wanted to gather a collection of ideas for teaching seminars to non-kenpoist.

First was a camp setting to other Martial Artist. Now I have a 6 week women's self-defense course starting. I have a curriculum laid out for this, but am open to new ideas.

The past 12 posts, including one by me, have been on "Inward Blocks" ... way off topic. I would like to see the discussion on new material or ideas for teaching Kenpo, continue.

Do you 3 guys want me to split the Inward Block stuff into a new thread, or start a new one on it ... it is interesting to me, in an esoteric kinda way, but nothing I will venture into (except maybe in passing) at a camp or seminar.

Just let me know.
Thanks,
-Michael

 

[Nightingale]

split it.

 

[kenpo2dabone]

I beleive it was my original post that took this thread off topic. It was unintentional I assure you. Please feel free to split this thread.

Salute,
Mike Miller UKF

 

[MartialArtsGuy]

Split it please

I thought your question was interesting and want to see more replies to it.