Targeting biceps and forearms in a fight/sparring?

Ivan

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We've all felt it. You're sparring or fighting somebody who also has martial arts experience, then you go to throw a punch. It could be a hook a punch, and then your opponent blocks it with the common circular motion, and the block strikes your forearm or bicep in such a manner that makes you hand convulse.

The next crucial few seconds where your arm goes numb and you can't form a fist. Is there a fighting style that exploits this? Do you guys think it would be viable to target the biceps or forearms of the opponent in a fight like this?
 

lklawson

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Is there a fighting style that exploits this?
Pretty much every martial system I've seen has techniques that use this, from Judo and Karate through Escrima and Boxing. If it is simple and works then pretty much every culture and system will find it and, at the very least, catalogue it.

Do you guys think it would be viable to target the biceps or forearms of the opponent in a fight like this?
Sure. If it's a target (not covered or armored), and you've got the time and the skill, sure, use it.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
 

Christopher Adamchek

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Absolutely - especially with weapons training
In terms of empty hand fighting ive had two techniques that have worked most consistantly for me in execution and opponent injury is
parry/elbow cover - mostly raising the elbow to where their punch is going to be
and a hybrid hammer fist/wing chun chain punch - with the main intent of landing your ulna on the top of their forearm as they throw punches to shock the nerves of the forearm extensors
 

drop bear

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It is called gunting in philippino systems. I am pretty meh. About it.


Arm destruction.

That kind of thing.

So philippino systems is where I would look.

The issue i have is with the boxers I face i can't see their punches let alone see them and get both my hands out doing different things before I eat a dozen shots in the mush.

So I rely on angles and probabilitys
 
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JowGaWolf

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Do you guys think it would be viable to target the biceps or forearms of the opponent in a fight like this?
I target the forearm because the nerve is easier to hit in comparison to the biceps. For the biceps I have to do too much extra stuff.

Now when I say target, I'm doing so through certain types of blocks that are structured in a way that it targets that nerve. I don't actually target the forearms unless the hands and arms are the only thing within striking reach reach, in situations like this, I will then use different types of fist structures that causes more damage to the hand and the forearm. At this point I'm trying to damage the muscles in the forearm where as with the block I'm attacking the bone and the nerve of the forearm.
 

dvcochran

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It is called gunting in philippino systems. I am pretty meh. About it.


Arm destruction.

That kind of thing.

So philippino systems is where I would look.

The issue i have is with the boxers I face i can't see their punches let alone see them and get both my hands out doing different things before I eat a dozen shots in the mush.

So I rely on angles and probabilitys
I can see that but when you have a weapon like the sticks in your hands it changes the game completely. Yes, I know you cannot go around carrying sticks but it does translate. Like the first video said, the goal in Kali it to work back to open hands.
 

dunc

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A lot of the old Japanese traditions use this concept
Absolutely devastating if you know where, when and how to hit the arms
 

Kung Fu Wang

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the block strikes your forearm or bicep in such a manner that makes you hand convulse.
If your arm is harder than your opponent's arm, you will use hard against hard. If not, you should use soft against hard. If you rotate your arm the same direction as your opponent's arm is rotating, your opponent's arm cannot touch your arm.

The day that you can let your opponent hard block to hit into the thin air, the day that you will understand how to use "soft".

- You punch.
- Your opponent blocks.
- You grab, pull his blocking arm, and ...
 
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Graywalker

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This is a concept that is taught in some Karate systems. But, you need to stay in the fight, and I believe that this is what it means when you hear, in some Karate styles, there are no blocks only strikes, and you don't back up.

It is something that is focused on in Shudokan based systems, that I have seen while training. I do, teach this concept to my students.

I also came across this being taught in an Ed Parker kenpo school in Great Falls MT and a Style called Mong Su Dom in Missouri.
 

JowGaWolf

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there are no blocks only strikes, and you don't back up.
That's how I learned. Block are called blocks but in reality they are strikes that give you the opportunity to hurt your opponent.
 

drop bear

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I can see that but when you have a weapon like the sticks in your hands it changes the game completely. Yes, I know you cannot go around carrying sticks but it does translate. Like the first video said, the goal in Kali it to work back to open hands.

Yeah. Weapon fighting has different priorities.
 

Graywalker

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That's how I learned. Block are called blocks but in reality they are strikes that give you the opportunity to hurt your opponent.
Yes, this is something you learn in the more advance teachings concerning form. The form starts of fairly basic and taught as blocks, but as one learns and truly understands the basics, you are then taught a more thorough application of the movements in the forms, and how to use these movements in combat as strikes. At least, in our method this is where it starts to come in.

I have noticed this concept in your videos on shadow boxing and then its application in your sparring videos. Your blocking motions in the shadow boxing, look like strikes in your sparring videos.

But, this similarity is expected considering the origins of Karate finding roots in Kung Fu.
 

_Simon_

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We were taught it and briefly trained it in Kyokushin. When you could tell a punch was coming, palm heel to the bicep. Serious OUCH. But I don't know of specific styles that really work with that a great deal.
 

dvcochran

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Yeah. Weapon fighting has different priorities.
Right. Totally different fighting principles from boxing to Kali, even empty handed. You could say one is looking for the one punch knockout and the other is looking to chop you down in pieces until you give up.
 

Rat

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Unarmed, just expect it to take muiltiple hits or to work later on in a fight. I have been hit in the bicep area and it hurts, but it would take a few to actually stop me using the arm. Pressure points do actually work, you just can hardly ever pull them off 100% effectively in a real fight. Ergo, ina demo format, if this spot causes a lot of pain and its hit 3 times ina row for a demo, obviously its going to hurt. Just cant pull it off easily in a fight.

Addendum: some work, some dont.


The arnis logic sort of works, like you can attack the arms with your arms, or break the knuckles etc with elbows and you should try, its just the application is a little off. A machete is going to disable somone 100% better than your fists are.
 

Graywalker

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If your arm is harder than your opponent's arm, you will use hard against hard. If not, you should use soft against hard
In Kwon Bup, we have a saying:

If the force is greater, flow it. If the Flow is greater force it.

Basically, Flow is changing the trajectory of the strike, Force is colliding with the strike or attacks.
 

Kung Fu Wang

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In Kwon Bup, we have a saying:

If the force is greater, flow it. If the Flow is greater force it.

Basically, Flow is changing the trajectory of the strike, Force is colliding with the strike or attacks.
This is why a hard block sometime is not a good idea. Your opponent can borrow your hard block force, change his straight punch into a hook punch (or back fist). The harder you block, the faster that hook punch (or back fist) can land on your head.

But to let your opponent to punch or kick on your elbow joint can be a good idea.
 

Graywalker

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This is why a hard block sometime is not a good idea. Your opponent can borrow your hard block force, change his straight punch into a hook punch (or back fist). The harder you block, the faster that hook punch (or back fist) can land on your head.

I agree, one of the exercises, we do is entering the strike, either inside or outside of the strike, using the elbows in an upward motion and finishing with various elbow strikes. Entering into the attack using force or flow, is practiced extensively in our system. Whether or not your opponent punches or kicks and which side they attack with, stepping into the attack and either using a hard or soft block/strike, the stepping in, is what is the focus of the exercise.

But to let your opponent to punch or kick on your elbow joint can be a good idea.
 

Graywalker

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Umm..my response didn't go through, but yes I agree.

Edit:
I guess it did lol
 

drop bear

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Right. Totally different fighting principles from boxing to Kali, even empty handed. You could say one is looking for the one punch knockout and the other is looking to chop you down in pieces until you give up.

Different priorities in fighting with a weapon. If your hands are getting stabbed limb destruction becomes high percentage.

If I you are trading punches in your face for punches in their biceps. You are going to have a bad day.
 
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