Is it viable to duck/bob and weave underneath kicks to dodge them?

Ivan

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We've all seen in action movie fight scenes where characters manage to slip and duck underneath kicks the same way a boxer might bob and weave underneath punches. But I've never seen this applied in real life, and I've never had the courage to try it in sparring as I didn't feel I was fast enough.

Is this a viable manner to dodge and avoid head-height kicks? I mostly mean circular kicks such as spin hook kicks or roundhouse kicks, not linear kicks like the front and side kicks. Have any of you managed to do this before?
 

jobo

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We've all seen in action movie fight scenes where characters manage to slip and duck underneath kicks the same way a boxer might bob and weave underneath punches. But I've never seen this applied in real life, and I've never had the courage to try it in sparring as I didn't feel I was fast enough.

Is this a viable manner to dodge and avoid head-height kicks? I mostly mean circular kicks such as spin hook kicks or roundhouse kicks, not linear kicks like the front and side kicks. Have any of you managed to do this before?
maybe, the problem is knowing what height the kick is comming at, and or they wobt throw the next one a foot lower once they know you ducking.

if you have the time to duck you have the time to move out of range which seem a lot safer option, they cant keep coming after you like they can with punches as they are stood on one leg

i find going backwards and then rushing them before they get the leg planted works quite well
 

Dirty Dog

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Of course. You can dodge any strike instead of blocking it. Not 100%, obviously, but blocking isn't 100% either.
 
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Ivan

Ivan

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maybe, the problem is knowing what height the kick is comming at, and or they wobt throw the next one a foot lower once they know you ducking.

if you have the time to duck you have the time to move out of range which seem a lot safer option, they cant keep coming after you like they can with punches as they are stood on one leg

i find going backwards and then rushing them before they get the leg planted works quite well
Back when we were able to do sparring (no Covid) I was quite defensive and ended up walking backwards constantly. I had just got the hang of standing my ground when Covid hit. I hope once sparring begins, I can apply the boxer's weave onto my opponent's kicks so that I can instantly rush in with a punch, sweep, or shoulder bash.

Moving out of range is a good option too, but I frequently came across practitioners who would see through this and do multiple kicks before putting their leg down or were simply too fast when recovering from kicks.
 

jobo

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Back when we were able to do sparring (no Covid) I was quite defensive and ended up walking backwards constantly. I had just got the hang of standing my ground when Covid hit. I hope once sparring begins, I can apply the boxer's weave onto my opponent's kicks so that I can instantly rush in with a punch, sweep, or shoulder bash.

Moving out of range is a good option too, but I frequently came across practitioners who would see through this and do multiple kicks before putting their leg down or were simply too fast when recovering from kicks.
it obviously depends on the quality of your opponent ,so working on the assumption that your equaly talented

head kicks travel a long way, you should be able to see them coming and move, if they are dangling a leg doing multiple kicks you should be able to grab the leg, even if you take a kick to do so. any one stood one one leg is vulrable, they have no balance and just about anything will knock them over, you have the time it takes them to recover the leg to hit them.

so you want to be just out of range, not halfway down the gym
 

punisher73

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Since it seems that MMA is the only proof that stuff "works", here are a couple examples of people using an extreme pullback.



But, just because you CAN do something doesn't mean it is the best option.

There are also techniques in forms/kata that have you drop under the kick to the ground with your own up kick into their groin, which is an even more extreme version of "ducking".
 

Monkey Turned Wolf

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I've ducked under head-height kicks plenty of times. Works better if you know the guy is throwing a head height kick though, unless you want to accidentally get kicked in the head.
 

Kung Fu Wang

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duck underneath kicks ...
That's one way this stance is used for.

lion-stance.jpg


crescent-kick.gif
 

Tony Dismukes

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Since it seems that MMA is the only proof that stuff "works", here are a couple examples of people using an extreme pullback.



Saenchai has made extensive use of that particular move in Muay Thai. It's effective, but requires a very high level of timing and being able to read your opponent.

Capoeira has an extensive vocabulary of techniques for ducking and weaving under kicks (including the "matrix" move shown in your clips).
 

Yokozuna514

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Although there are people that have used 'ducking' under kicks as a way to elude a kick to the head, it is not a tactic that we would recommend for KD. It brings the head lower for a wider variety of strikes and makes a knee to the head/face much more likely to succeed. Using a roundhouse kick against a person that ducks also sets up a spinning back kick so there is also that to be aware of should you decide to pursue this avenue.
 

JowGaWolf

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Since it seems that MMA is the only proof that stuff "works", here are a couple examples of people using an extreme pullback.



But, just because you CAN do something doesn't mean it is the best option.

There are also techniques in forms/kata that have you drop under the kick to the ground with your own up kick into their groin, which is an even more extreme version of "ducking".
The solution is easy. In both situations continue the spin and use it to drive a spinning back kick which will land as the person is returning to vertical position.
 

isshinryuronin

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I was at a tournament in Southern California (I think it was one of the first professional money ones) and saw a match with Joe Lewis vs a hapkido guy (can't remember his name - it was long, long, ago.) Joe went high with a kick and the Korean crouched low and came up behind Lewis with a punch to the back. To me, he cleanly scored there, and a couple of other times as well, making him the CLEAR winner.

Apparently, nobody told him that Joe Lewis was the king. However, the deck was stacked against him and Lewis was "given" the win, and a match or two later, won the tournament. I felt bad that little bad a** Korean dude did not receive the recognition he deserved for fairly beating Joe Lewis. I went up to him later and told him just that, feeling a little ashamed over the American judges who sold out.

For such a maneuver to be reliably successful against a decent kicker, IMO, the kicker must be kicking to the defender's head. The defender must be shorter, have quick reflexes and great timing. Of these three elements, I am usually not significantly shorter, have only good reflexes, and my timing is just very good. So I fail on all three counts and accordingly do not use this tactic.
 

Kung Fu Wang

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Believe it or not, I used to spar a TKD guy one time. I always stayed in waist level low stance. My TKD opponent was used to head level high kick. He was not used to waist level kick. After that sparring, He did want to spar with me any more.

A: Your CMA doesn't have my TKD spin hook kick.
B: If I do my CMA back sweep kick higher, that will be exactly the same as your TKD spin hook kick. If you kick at my head, but I sweep at your rooting leg, I think will have advantage over you. My back sweep kick can dodge your high kick nicely.

[/QUOTE]
 
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Ivan

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The solution is easy. In both situations continue the spin and use it to drive a spinning back kick which will land as the person is returning to vertical position.
The idea, at least for me, behind going so low, is to follow up with grabbing their leg and taking them down or to mess up with balance with a shoulder push. They would also leave their back exposed while spinning. If someone is fas enough to dodge a kick this way, I am sure they'd be fast enough to close the distance and counter their opponent, before he uses a spinning sidekick.
 

skribs

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Although there are people that have used 'ducking' under kicks as a way to elude a kick to the head, it is not a tactic that we would recommend for KD. It brings the head lower for a wider variety of strikes and makes a knee to the head/face much more likely to succeed. Using a roundhouse kick against a person that ducks also sets up a spinning back kick so there is also that to be aware of should you decide to pursue this avenue.

Or, if they're actually going for a body kick, you put your head there.

I had a similar problem when I was trying to raise my back kicks up, and I sparred kids. There was one kid I back kicked in the face 3 weeks in a row. I felt so bad.
 

skribs

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It's a risk/reward thing. The risks are:
  • Ducking puts you in position for an easier head kick or a knee strike (or even an uppercut)
  • Ducking puts your head where the body kick was aiming
The reward is that the kick misses, or possibly that you can close in and execute a take-down. There are better ways of making the kick miss. Moving out of range or too close for the kick to have any power are both better options. Moving diagonally forward (for straight kicks) is also a good option. I'd rather move inside the kick and catch it, than try to go under and attack the other leg. Especially because they probably have a lot of weight on that leg.
 

JowGaWolf

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I am sure they'd be fast enough to close the distance and counter their opponent, before he uses a spinning sidekick.
You can't go forward and retreat at the same time. If your opponent leans back he's retreating. When he leans back then you know he'll return to that vertical position and that's where you catch him.

The reason the Muay Thai fighters aren't able to do this is because they choose not to follow up. In Chinese Martial Arts, a lot of the techniques plan a followup that covers the scenario of an opponent avoiding or blocking the first strike. As out of shape as I am, I would be fast enough for someone to lean back like that and then to follow through with a spinning kick that will land.

The fighter cannot retreat or advance when he's in this lean back position. Instead of trying to land one big kick flow through it and follow up with a spinning kick. Lining back like this is actually a disadvantage. When the fighters begin to see that, they will exploit it and you'll see less of it.

upload_2021-2-21_17-24-13.png


Examples of the technique I'm speaking about. I personally wouldn't go for the head. I would just spin one off to the abdomen area. The time that it takes to return to the vertical position is more than en
The time that it takes to return to the vertical position is more than enough time to land the kick. For example:
A Kicks = B Lean Back
A launches spinning side kick at the same time B begins to return to vertical position.
A lands kick

The reason why this works is because B is not in the process of defending, retreating, block, He's in the process of returning to a vertical position.

Look at 0:13. You will see the move that was shown above. You also see why I wouldn't throw the kick to the head. Had he done a spinning side kick the kick would have landed. You will also see that the defender doesn't have time to retreat, the only thing he could do was to lean back again. You will see that they throw that one big kick with nothing to follow up with it but a Reset. Had the guy been better with transitioning into the spinning back kick, he would have easily kicked him in the face while he was returning to vertical position.

A lean back only puts the head farther away. Everything else is within range

There are 2 things that I know will happen without fail and without doubt. 100% all of the time unless the person fails. When a person leans back
1. They will no longer move forward or backwards.
2. They will need to return to a vertical stance.

They cannot break these 2 rules while remaining on their feet.
 

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