Tailoring

[jazkiljok]

this is mainly for American Kenpo stylists...

Can some one here discuss a technique that they needed tailored for their specific needs?

please first describe how your school teaches the base- then describe how you do it and then most importantly- tell us why you needed to have the base changed?

thanks to all who reply in advance.

 

[Rob_Broad]

I have no specific examples of techniques but I know i have tailored several because of a bad shoulder. Rarely do I receach to my obscure zone with my left hand becasue my shoulder will pop. I often end up changing the technique for myself when it calls for somethng that may make my shoulder pop. But I always teach my students the proper base method regardless of what I do.

 

[jeffkyle]

Originally posted by jazkiljok

this is mainly for American Kenpo stylists...

Can some one here discuss a technique that they needed tailored for their specific needs?

please first describe how your school teaches the base- then describe how you do it and then most importantly- tell us why you needed to have the base changed?

thanks to all who reply in advance.

I am still trying to do them correctly the way i learned them!

 

[kenpo3631]

I have taught a student that had Spinabifida, a congenital cleft of the spinal column with hernial protrusion of the meninges and sometimes the spinal cord.

Due to his condition he could not kick higher than his ankle. however if he latched on to his opponent he was able to deliver an effective knee strike. He could also delvier an effective heel stomp.

I tailored many techniques for him. Here is an example:

Delayed Sword:

1. Step back with your left foot into a right neutral bow as you execute a right inward block to your opponent's right forearm keeping your left hand at solar plexus level as a cover.

2. Deliver a right front heel stomp to your opponent's right instep

3. Have the left covering hand grab and control the opponents right arm as you deliver an outward downward diagonal heelpalm to the opponents temporalmandibular joint.

4. With your left hand grab your opponents right shoulder, making sure you anchor your elbow, simultaneously pull opponent downard as you execute a right vertical knee strike to the opponents sternum.

 

[jeffkyle]

Originally posted by kenpo3631

I have taught a student that had Spinabifida, a congenital cleft of the spinal column with hernial protrusion of the meninges and sometimes the spinal cord.

Due to his condition he could not kick higher than his ankle. however if he latched on to his opponent he was able to deliver an effective knee strike. He could also delvier an effective heel stomp.

I tailored many techniques for him. Here is an example:

Delayed Sword:

1. Step back with your left foot into a right neutral bow as you execute a right inward block to your opponent's right forearm keeping your left hand at solar plexus level as a cover.

2. Deliver a right front heel stomp to your opponent's right instep

3. Have the left covering hand grab and control the opponents right arm as you deliver an outward downward diagonal heelpalm to the opponents temporalmandibular joint.

4. With your left hand grab your opponents right shoulder, making sure you anchor your elbow, simultaneously pull opponent downard as you execute a right vertical knee strike to the opponents sternum.

Ouch! That sounds painful!

 

[kenpo3631]

Ouch! That sounds painful!

It is... It is however as in his case, operable. Many don't get the chance to walk. In many ways he was lucky.

 

[brianhunter]

Originally posted by jeffkyle



I am still trying to do them correctly the way i learned them!

Dont let Jeff fool you he knows his techniques pretty well.......



In answer to your question I dont think I have had to tailor a specific technique yet...There are some that I just was not getting down right and had to get some "guidance" as to what I was doing......But Im also at the halfway point in the system so "we shall see"

 

[jeffkyle]

Each technique gets tailored by each individual once they understand the concepts of the technique.
They will do things like modify timing, and vary speed and power applications to fit their body type. That is what tailoring is all about.

 

[kenpo3631]

I beleive tailoring is best accomplished using the equation formula AND having a decent understanding of the art.
:asian:

 

[fanged_seamus]

The technique "Attacking Mace" gave me trouble until my instructor helped me to modify it.

I'm tall and have long legs, so in order to kick the attacker's stomach, I had to take a serious adjustment step backwards before executing the kick. But the adjustment made it difficult for me to land the uppercut after recovering from the kick.

My instructor suggested that instead of a kick to the stomach, I should try to drive my knee through the attacker's thigh. It worked like a charm! I was able to maintain body position relative to the attacker, but still deliver a nasty blow.

I'm not advanced enough yet to tailor moves on the fly, but my instructor's help got me thinking about other ways to accomplish the same goal. Her suggestion opened up a world of new possibilities, as I believe Parker intended....

Tad Finnegan

 

[Seig]

I feel it has kind of been said onhere, but danced around. It is ok by the dictates that SGM left us and even on the verge of mandatory to tailor every tech to every individual. The trick is making sure that the student understands the unaltered technique so that when it is there turn to teach it, they tech the unaltered tech and then it can be tailored again for another individual. Itis ok to change the weapon or even the target or both.

 

[fanged_seamus]

I really like (and agree with) the point you are making, Seig. Just like no two kenpoists are identical, neither are two attackers. Knowing the technique as written is an ABSOLUTE requirement for your foundation. That foundation is the "point of reference" for tailoring, and as a point of reference for teaching.

Thanks for the clear sight on the issue.

Tad

 

[Doc]

1. SWORD AND HAMMER: (flank CLOSE left hand shoulder grab)

1. While you are standing naturally (facing 12 o'clock), your opponent extends his left arm, seizes your right shoulder, and moves CLOSE between 3 and 4 o'clock with an open right shoulder). (1) Step off and to your left with your left foot toward 9 o'clock into a horse stance (with your head and eyes turned toward your opponent). (2) Strike just under your opponent's nose or STERNUM (only Tailoring for height) with a right outward hand-sword, as you (3) SLAP-CHECK your right shoulder with your left hand. PAUSE
2. As your opponent reacts to your initial strike, settle your body and, drag your left foot toward him (cocking your hammer-fist but leaving your elbow in place) then step with your right foot into a horse stance. Execute a right hammer-fist strike to your opponent's lower centerline as you plant your right foot WITH a SLAPPING-CHECK to the right shoulder. STOP
3. Immediately, BOUNCE a right, side obscure elbow underneath your opponent's chin, while CONTOURING your opponent's body and utilizing BORROWED FORCE as he bends forward from being struck in the low centerline.
4. Right crossover toward 10:30 and cover out facing your opponent in a neutral bow stance. Executed properly, this sequence should render Physical/Mental Disassociation.
Timing & Breathing Signature™: 1 P 2,3 C
GCM Signature™: 1 G 2 G 3 G

 

[Seig]

I mean no disrepect and your description was beautiful, but what did it have to do with tailoring?
Sorry I am apparently so dense.:asian:

 

[Doc]

Originally posted by Doc

1. SWORD AND HAMMER: (flank CLOSE left hand shoulder grab)

1. While you are standing naturally (facing 12 o'clock), your opponent extends his left arm, seizes your right shoulder, and moves CLOSE between 3 and 4 o'clock with an open right shoulder). (1) Step off and to your left with your left foot toward 9 o'clock into a horse stance (with your head and eyes turned toward your opponent). (2) Strike just under your opponent's nose or STERNUM (only Tailoring for height) with a right outward hand-sword, as you (3) SLAP-CHECK your right shoulder with your left hand. PAUSE
2. As your opponent reacts to your initial strike, settle your body and, drag your left foot toward him (cocking your hammer-fist but leaving your elbow in place) then step with your right foot into a horse stance. Execute a right hammer-fist strike to your opponent's lower centerline as you plant your right foot WITH a SLAPPING-CHECK to the right shoulder. STOP
3. Immediately, BOUNCE a right, side obscure elbow underneath your opponent's chin, while CONTOURING your opponent's body and utilizing BORROWED FORCE as he bends forward from being struck in the low centerline.
4. Right crossover toward 10:30 and cover out facing your opponent in a neutral bow stance. Executed properly, this sequence should render Physical/Mental Disassociation.
Timing & Breathing Signature™: 1 P 2,3 C
GCM Signature™: 1 G 2 G 3 G

In general until you master your alphabet, Tailoring is restricted to adjustments for height & girth only.

 

[Seig]

Originally posted by Doc


In general until you master your alphabet, Tailoring is restricted to adjustments for height & girth only.

Doc.
Thank you for your clarification. If I may, another question or two. Wouldn't tailoring fall to the instructor? I mean, as you point out, a student who has not learned his alphabet isn't going to be able to tailor, at least not with any real success. And would adjustments for height and girth really be considered tailoring vs adapting? The reason I asked the queston this way is that I was under the impression that tailoring meant changing the finished product to suit the individual (the individual practitioner).

 

[ikenpo]

Originally posted by Seig


Doc.
Thank you for your clarification. If I may, another question or two. Wouldn't tailoring fall to the instructor? I mean, as you point out, a student who has not learned his alphabet isn't going to be able to tailor, at least not with any real success. And would adjustments for height and girth really be considered tailoring vs adapting? The reason I asked the queston this way is that I was under the impression that tailoring meant changing the finished product to suit the individual (the individual practitioner).

I've always thought of tailoring as method of adapting a technique or movement to an environment or circumstance your faced with and what your speaking of..."changing the finished product to suit the individual (the individual practitioner). " as more of a style thing, altering to suit the individual...

jb:asian:

 

[Doc]

In my opinion JB is correct on this one, but you must consider that "tailoring" was introduced conceptually to insure a student could make a particular technique functional within a given set of circumstances at the first level of AK. Obviously the instructor assists in this process by making suggestions for obstacles that present themselves at the moment.

Significantly from our perspective however, the instructors role is much smaller in tailoring because the circumstances tend to present themselves in a similar manner on most occassions. A person who is vertically challenged is always short and therefore must tailor most techniques to compensate for this height deficiency. "Changing the finished product to suit the individual" has more to do with preferences in "Destructive Modulation" in our curriculum, and that is learned much further down the line.

We spend the majority of our efforts at the first level on insuring every technique is street functional with only very minor tailoring allowed for disparities in Body Geometry. When you can succesfully under pressure execute 90% of the base curriculum Default Techniques, than we move on to a re-examination of the base curriculum from a higher perpsective and begin to include additional elements triggered by an opponent's more aggressive actions.

In our curriculum understanding the base is paramount. No. Check that. EXECUTING the base is paramount. One cannot go into formulations unless they have the requisite knowledge that encompasses principles that go beyond simple "blunt force trauma" infliction. Anyone can learn to hit soemone with random adaptable strikes, but Destructive Sequencing requires specific action to generate specific results. (General knowledge and actions create general results, specific knowledge and actions create specific results. - Ed Parker)

I know that in "Alternating Maces" the "sequence" is set for a reason. I know that the strike/block to the arm attacks a lung cavity, followed by a conception strike, and ending with a finishing backfist to a triple burner that will produce the desired effect. I also know that even if a student is not capable of exactly hitting the mark in the beginning, as long a I give him good basic execution the technique will work on a mechanical level quite well. From that point forward a student can only get better and more efficient and effective. And the really cool part is, the techniques are already sequenced in the base curriculum. If you learn to execute them, they will work. Later on you learn why as we expand your knowledge.

I demonstrated this in a camp (back in the day when they would invite me) to an amazed group of BB's by tapping the first and third move on a rather large and tall man. He insisted he was allright, and I told him to not move because he wasn't. He insisted, the group laughed, and all of a sudden he dropped to the floor and couldn't get up.

I believe JB saw the tape when he visited me (about 10 years ago The bad news is if you want to be able to do that, you must leave Motion-Kenpo formulations, tailoring, and what ifs behind for more dominant priciples. The good news is you can still do all those things after you have the knowledge of HOW to do it and incorporate the dominant principles.

The problem with Kenpo is it is full of hypothetical discussions, and I'd rather touch you to make my "point" Standing in front of you where I can touch and move your body will always give you a new perspective. Right JB?

 

[ikenpo]

Originally posted by Doc

In my opinion JB is correct on this one, but you must consider that "tailoring" was introduced conceptually to insure a student could make a particular technique functional within a given set of circumstances at the first level of AK.

"Changing the finished product to suit the individual" has more to do with preferences in "Destructive Modulation" in our curriculum, and that is learned much further down the line.

than we move on to a re-examination of the base curriculum from a higher perpsective and begin to include additional elements triggered by an opponent's more aggressive actions.

In our curriculum understanding the base is paramount. No. Check that. EXECUTING the base is paramount. One cannot go into formulations unless they have the requisite knowledge that encompasses principles that go beyond simple "blunt force trauma" infliction. Anyone can learn to hit soemone with random adaptable strikes, but Destructive Sequencing requires specific action to generate specific results. (General knowledge and actions create general results, specific knowledge and actions create specific results. - Ed Parker)

I know that in "Alternating Maces" the "sequence" is set for a reason. I know that the strike/block to the arm attacks a lung cavity, followed by a conception strike, and ending with a finishing backfist to a triple burner that will produce the desired effect. I also know that even if a student is not capable of exactly hitting the mark in the beginning, as long a I give him good basic execution the technique will work on a mechanical level quite well. From that point forward a student can only get better and more efficient and effective. And the really cool part is, the techniques are already sequenced in the base curriculum. If you learn to execute them, they will work. Later on you learn why as we expand your knowledge.

I believe JB saw the tape when he visited me (about 10 years ago The bad news is if you want to be able to do that, you must leave Motion-Kenpo formulations, tailoring, and what ifs behind for more dominant priciples. The good news is you can still do all those things after you have the knowledge of HOW to do it and incorporate the dominant principles.

Standing in front of you where I can touch and move your body will always give you a new perspective. Right JB?

Well,

Doc you said a mouth full and made me sound way too "connected". I'm not that smart, but I will say this, I have seen the video along with some other stuff I've continued to keep to myself. If I had known you 10 yrs ago I would definitely be a different practicioner than I am today, but I have definitely benefited from my exposure to you (and your people).

That video was funny until homeboy fell right out. That was great. I think I "felt" what you were speaking of in 2000 and got that other info back in 1999 when we first started corresponding (your first reply was Jan 27, 1999). I've still got hard print outs of all our conversations. That was back before the Randy Z days...LOL. Thanks again for always being available and up front about the many, and I mean MANY questions I asked. You and Mr. Conatser have always been that way. God bless ya both.

Once I "felt" what you spoke of I did believe. I actually believed before, but it was reinforced. If you (the reading public) ever get a chance go see Doc Chapel, do it. For all the flack he catches he can backup everything he professes about his system of American Kenpo regardless of whether you get into the whole "motion kenpo" thing/debate.... Heck I'll probably make my way up there again eventually (I've always threatened that, but my Kenpo Journey is much more open now). All that's between us now is a little air.

Now to comment a few things you said,

1) Are triple burner and triple warmer interchangable terms?

2) "I also know that even if a student is not capable of exactly hitting the mark in the beginning, as long a I give him good basic execution the technique will work on a mechanical level quite well. "

That almost sounds like Motion Kenpo talk... I thought those points were stressed from the beginning?

3) I know you are against blunt force trauma and attacking soft tissue areas. Do you refer to those nerve point activations as just that, "activations" or as "micro traumas"?

4) Could you comment on the "levels" that you go through in the system. What level does CMA (control manipulation alternatives) represent? I think you mentioned there were 5 stages/levels as you re-examine the base with advancing students if I'm not mistaken? Mr. C referred to his process as "phases"....

Thanks, jb "the black sheep of the family" :asian:

 

[Goldendragon7]

I believe that way too many shoot off to "tailoring" wayyyyyyyyy to early and use it as an excuse not to work hard on some technique or move. So they reason..... well I can't do this.... I'm big, I'm small, I'm female, yada yada yada, so thus the base technique is changed or adjusted prematurely to "fit the individual" so the result is less than could be. I don't think all do this but I have seen a good portion that do. They even change or delete material and blame it all on "Tailoring"!

Be Careful! Don't delete the System Keys.

:asian: