Tae Kwon Do and Brazilian Jiu Jitsu

Twin Fist

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they would have been able to deal with Gracie on any kind of surface...that's just an excuse.


nope

not only was the mat overly friendly to the gracies, it was so soft that stand up guys actually had a hard time keeping thier balance....

the world isnt made up of marshmellow soft surfaces.

like i always say, see if any of those guys want to roll around on concrete...
 

BrandonLucas

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i did

that so called black belt was rubbish

ANY 9 year old black belt for that matter

I think that there's some miscommunication somewhere.

I thought we were discussing adding a BJJ cirriculum to a TKD cirriculum to help round out martial artists...and the OP has included videos (that I'm unable to watch from work, unfortunately) of their child competing in a tournement in which both arts are competing.

The whole 9 year old blackbelt thing has been done to death, and can still be discussed on another thread in this very forum.

I don't think the videos were linked to have us discuss the level of competitors at the tournement, rather, it sounds like a parent who is proud of what their child achieved.

I don't think I would like it very much if I posted a video of my child competing in a tournement, and the only response that I got was "The child she is competing against is crap."

I think the OP is looking for more positive construction, actually...and hopefully, we can all be civil enough to comply.
 

Tez3

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nope

not only was the mat overly friendly to the gracies, it was so soft that stand up guys actually had a hard time keeping thier balance....

the world isnt made up of marshmellow soft surfaces.

like i always say, see if any of those guys want to roll around on concrete...

A new sport, trampoline martial arts sparring!!! Don't laugh it will come!

Actually rolling on a very soft surface isn't much good either, you can't shrimp properly for one thing! it would be like grappling on a bed and NO, don't go there!!
 

Twin Fist

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i would pay to see trampoline fights!!


as for grappling in bed?

no comment

A new sport, trampoline martial arts sparring!!! Don't laugh it will come!

Actually rolling on a very soft surface isn't much good either, you can't shrimp properly for one thing! it would be like grappling on a bed and NO, don't go there!!
 
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Pyrock

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I agree with all of you on the headgear but then striking and head kicks are allowed. It is only when they clinch are stikes to the head not allowed. It's more of a safety thing. My son hates it because they make chokes that much harder.

It's a pretty safe event. As some might have noticed, the black belt didn't actually tap. The ref called it a tap because he saw that the kid may not have tapped when he should have. His face probably indicated that it was over. A passed out 8 year old would not go well with the parents and I can tell you that my son would not have let go unless the other kid tapped or the ref told him to stop.

As far as a 9 year old black belt....I have my own opinion on that which I will keep to myself. Let's just say that my son will NOT wear a black belt until I feel he is worthy.
 

Tez3

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I agree with all of you on the headgear but then striking and head kicks are allowed. It is only when they clinch are stikes to the head not allowed. It's more of a safety thing. My son hates it because they make chokes that much harder.

It's a pretty safe event. As some might have noticed, the black belt didn't actually tap. The ref called it a tap because he saw that the kid may not have tapped when he should have. His face probably indicated that it was over. A passed out 8 year old would not go well with the parents and I can tell you that my son would not have let go unless the other kid tapped or the ref told him to stop.

As far as a 9 year old black belt....I have my own opinion on that which I will keep to myself. Let's just say that my son will NOT wear a black belt until I feel he is worthy.


I have to say that if kicks and strikes are allowed in the 'grappling' then it's actually MMA not BJJ! Children doing chokes, oh dear no! what other techniques are they allowed to do?
 
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Pyrock

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I have to say that if kicks and strikes are allowed in the 'grappling' then it's actually MMA not BJJ! Children doing chokes, oh dear no! what other techniques are they allowed to do?

As a parent, I think it's pretty safe and it's a very controlled invironment. As you can see in the video, the ref is very close to the action and is monitoring it very closely. In fact, the ref tapped out the kid in blue to be safe. You can tell a lot of things by looking at someone's face. The irony of the whole thing is that the other kids father was upset because the ref stopped it when his kid didn't even tap out.

To answer your question...they are allowed to perform all techniques that are employed in traditional Japanese Jiu Jitsu which includes arm locks, joint locks, chokes, and throws BUT they DO need to be upper belts in Tae Kwon Do or have permission from an instructor. My son has the latter. Should we teach them a "watered down" version so they become good at the watered down Jiu Jitsu?

I am confident that they permitted my son to participate in the classes (and tourney) because he was ready for it from a maturity standpoint. Incidentally, he learns the same moves from his Gracie school as well. Why shouldn't they teach the kids the real art?
 

Tez3

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As a parent, I think it's pretty safe and it's a very controlled invironment. As you can see in the video, the ref is very close to the action and is monitoring it very closely. In fact, the ref tapped out the kid in blue to be safe. You can tell a lot of things by looking at someone's face. The irony of the whole thing is that the other kids father was upset because the ref stopped it when his kid didn't even tap out.

To answer your question...they are allowed to perform all techniques that are employed in traditional Japanese Jiu Jitsu which includes arm locks, joint locks, chokes, and throws BUT they DO need to be upper belts in Tae Kwon Do or have permission from an instructor. My son has the latter. Should we teach them a "watered down" version so they become good at the watered down Jiu Jitsu?

I am confident that they permitted my son to participate in the classes (and tourney) because he was ready for it from a maturity standpoint. Incidentally, he learns the same moves from his Gracie school as well. Why shouldn't they teach the kids the real art?

It's fine if you are happy with it but calling it BJJ and TKD is misleading, it's MMA.
I'm not sure what you mean by watered down, teaching age appropriate techniques is common across all martial arts. I think what should be taught at what age is probably another thread ( it's probably been done) and we've already touched upon the point of nine year old black belts, now nine year old blackbelts doing full on MMA moves worries me a lot I'm afraid but I'm not there so I can only talk about what we teach our children.

We teach them techniques that they can do and understand, there's no watering down, just waiting until it's appropriate for them to learn moves. I'm a bit confused now though because you said they were doing BJJ now it's Japanese juijitsu?

I do understand about refereeing, I ref adult MMA matches. I don't know what the TMA clubs here do but I do know there isn't an MMA club here that has children doing MMA competitions, they can spar standing or they can grappling not both at such a young age. Teaching MMA to children is fine but give them the techniques they can do and bring in more as they get older.

I'm sure your son is a good martial artist for his age but I have to say I believe it's too much too soon for the average child of seven. At that age in our club they've just moved up from Little Dragons to the childrens class.
 

SA_BJJ

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nope

not only was the mat overly friendly to the gracies, it was so soft that stand up guys actually had a hard time keeping thier balance....

the world isnt made up of marshmellow soft surfaces.

like i always say, see if any of those guys want to roll around on concrete...
Well actually alot of the time they train on the beach. Not in the nice soft sand...the hard packed wet sand. May as well be concrete.

We get the point you think there is no practical application to BJJ...thats fine. You just havent had to deal with an experienced grappler. God help you if you do. If you had, you WOULD NOT be able to get back to your feet where you have all of your experience. The fact of the matter is youre going to fight where you feel most confortable. I feel comfortable wrapping my legs around someone and choking them out. You feel comfortable on your feet. To each his own...
 

Twin Fist

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the hard packed wet sand. May as well be concrete......... God help you if you do. If you had, you WOULD NOT be able to get back to your feet where you have all of your experience.

wrong and wrong again

sand gives, concrete doesnt, not to mention the fact that they just spent millions on the new place, I am sure they aint rolling on the beach very much.

like i said, go roll on concrete and tell me how much fun it is.

Plus, I dont care WHO you are, wrap your legs around me all you want, it will still take both your hands to choke me and it will take between 30 seconds and 2 minutes

If both your hands are engaged in choking me, there is nothing to keep me from sinking my thumb an inch and half into your eye socket or tear a piece of you out with my teeth.............I told you, I train for SELF DEFENSE, not a sport art with rules to keep both people safe.

no one thing can keep you safe, and everything can be countered.

a fighting spirit is far more important than any given technique
 

BrandonLucas

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wrong and wrong again

sand gives, concrete doesnt, not to mention the fact that they just spent millions on the new place, I am sure they aint rolling on the beach very much.

like i said, go roll on concrete and tell me how much fun it is.

Plus, I dont care WHO you are, wrap your legs around me all you want, it will still take both your hands to choke me and it will take between 30 seconds and 2 minutes

If both your hands are engaged in choking me, there is nothing to keep me from sinking my thumb an inch and half into your eye socket or tear a piece of you out with my teeth.............I told you, I train for SELF DEFENSE, not a sport art with rules to keep both people safe.

no one thing can keep you safe, and everything can be countered.

a fighting spirit is far more important than any given technique

Ok, ok, fellas...I see where this is going...

This argument has been kicked around forever...and it's really not dealing with the original post directly.

If anyone wants to start a new thread, go for it...but this is starting to smell like another "BJJ sucks" thread...
 

Tez3

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wrong and wrong again

sand gives, concrete doesnt, not to mention the fact that they just spent millions on the new place, I am sure they aint rolling on the beach very much.

like i said, go roll on concrete and tell me how much fun it is.

Plus, I dont care WHO you are, wrap your legs around me all you want, it will still take both your hands to choke me and it will take between 30 seconds and 2 minutes

If both your hands are engaged in choking me, there is nothing to keep me from sinking my thumb an inch and half into your eye socket or tear a piece of you out with my teeth.............I told you, I train for SELF DEFENSE, not a sport art with rules to keep both people safe.

no one thing can keep you safe, and everything can be countered.

a fighting spirit is far more important than any given technique

I'm ignoring the invitation to wrap my legs around you bit lol sounds far too iffy with my mind!! But I can choke you with one arm I promise and I can do it to people bigger than me! Works standing and on the floor.
From the back put your arm around neck as in a normal choke, make sure crook of elbow is directly under the victim's I mean Ukes chin, then place your hand (the choking arms hand) palm flat against your head preferably behind the ear. This is good for bodyguards etc especially if carrying a gun as the other arm can use that while you use the body as a shield. It works I've used it 'outside' being smaller than most men it works even better for me as it pulls them down which helps choke them out.

Sand on some beaches here is very hard, it's used to train racehorses tostrengthen their legs.
 

Twin Fist

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Irene, you can wrap your legs around me anytime......LOL

%-}


When you are not being contrary, you are very descriptive in your posts, which is great, really easy to visualize what you are saying, not everyone has that gift.

Brandon,
I am not bashing any art, but steve keeps trying to expound on the superiority of bjj, and I know better

no martial art is useless, no martial art holds ALL the answers

even in a pig sty one can sometimes find a diamond
 

SA_BJJ

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Irene, you can wrap your legs around me anytime......LOL

%-}


When you are not being contrary, you are very descriptive in your posts, which is great, really easy to visualize what you are saying, not everyone has that gift.

Brandon,
I am not bashing any art, but steve keeps trying to expound on the superiority of bjj, and I know better

no martial art is useless, no martial art holds ALL the answers

even in a pig sty one can sometimes find a diamond
I am not trying to say that BJJ is Superior...I am just saying give it its credit. Its not a sport only art.
 

BrandonLucas

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Irene, you can wrap your legs around me anytime......LOL

%-}


When you are not being contrary, you are very descriptive in your posts, which is great, really easy to visualize what you are saying, not everyone has that gift.

Brandon,
I am not bashing any art, but steve keeps trying to expound on the superiority of bjj, and I know better

no martial art is useless, no martial art holds ALL the answers

even in a pig sty one can sometimes find a diamond

I understand you're not bashing another art..but I still think that this woule be better suited in another thread, if for no other reason than to avoid derailing this one.
 

miguksaram

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because in BJJ you WANT to be on the ground, in fact, if all you know if BJJ, you are helpless untill you are on the ground

in REAL self defense the ground isnt your friend, you dont want to be there, and while you are trying for that armbar, his cousin Bubba is gonna be kicking a hole in your face.

so NO, BJJ is not for self defense.

that "90% of all fights go to the ground" crap is just that, crap.

I know I'm late chiming in but I just couldn't help myself from laughing. How much training in BJJ do you have? I'm not saying all fights go to the gorund, but do you truely believe all fights remain standing and NEVER EVER go to the ground? What happens IF it does go to the ground? Is your TKD effective?

BTW...Why is it that the person the BJJ guy is fighting has hundreds of friends, but the BJJ guy never has a friend around in these scenarios?
 
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