Unfortunately I couldn't stay up and watch the whole game. I seen most of it while I was staying up practicing my kenpo tech. and such. Regardless I couldn't keep up with the whole thing. Wish I would have though.
Unfortunately I couldn't stay up and watch the whole game. I seen most of it while I was staying up practicing my kenpo tech. and such. Regardless I couldn't keep up with the whole thing. Wish I would have though.
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white dragon
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- Thread Starter
- #22
At my first tournament someone did this to me, I was a white belt and he was a green tag and I'd never come across this style before, I tried rushing and got kicked, I tried coming in with my leg chambered and he did a jump spin back kick. After about 30 seconds of this (which feels like a HELL of a long time on the mat) I got pissed off and just axe kicked his knee as hard as I could. I got a point knocked off, and he had had trouble kicking with his leg so I went on to beat the crap out of....
... what? Were you expecting me to have some moral attached to this story or something?
... what? Were you expecting me to have some moral attached to this story or something?
Hey! whatever works for you.
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white dragon
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- Thread Starter
- #24
I should maybe point out that I don't condone cheating, both in sparring and in general, and I did it out of frustration rather than hoping to knack the guys leg so he could kick. As it happens that was just a happy consequence.
white belt
Brown Belt
White Dragon,
There IS a moral to your story! If your favorite kicking leg gets injured in competition or the street, you better know how to use your other leg in relative skillfull fashion. You proved what can happen if you do not. Good post!
white belt
There IS a moral to your story! If your favorite kicking leg gets injured in competition or the street, you better know how to use your other leg in relative skillfull fashion. You proved what can happen if you do not. Good post!
white belt
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white dragon
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- #26
Ofcourse, I knew that, I was justtesting you all to see if you could follow my hidden words of wisdom *cough*
*cough*MichiganTKD
Master Black Belt
I have fought guys like this and I have two words: sliding sidekick.
I defy anyone to stand on one leg with their knee raised and try to withstand the momentum of a fullbore sliding sidekick without getting knocked on their keister. I've seen guys get knocked back 20 feet with it. Especially if they use the crane stance in response to a roundhouse kick, hoping your instep will hit their knee. I like to fake a roundhouse, make them raise their knee to block, then go immediately into a sliding sidekick. Very entertaining watching them fly across the room!
Also works great against people who try to do two or more kicks with the same leg without setting it down (and you know who you are!).
I defy anyone to stand on one leg with their knee raised and try to withstand the momentum of a fullbore sliding sidekick without getting knocked on their keister. I've seen guys get knocked back 20 feet with it. Especially if they use the crane stance in response to a roundhouse kick, hoping your instep will hit their knee. I like to fake a roundhouse, make them raise their knee to block, then go immediately into a sliding sidekick. Very entertaining watching them fly across the room!
Also works great against people who try to do two or more kicks with the same leg without setting it down (and you know who you are!).
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There's a good way to get past it, and stop the idiot from doing it again, but you'll risk getting a warning. With his knee up, do a skip-in axe kick, targeting that leg. When his leg goes out, yours will come down on it, if you did it fast enough. Doing so will bring his upper body down, putting his face in good range for a switch-round. Like I said, this will get you a warning, but if you have one warning, might as well use it. Also, this counter will make it less likely for him to do it again, and will possibly fluster him too.
If there's one thing I really hate, it's flamingo sparrers.
If there's one thing I really hate, it's flamingo sparrers.
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ThuNder_FoOt
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- #29
Hmm... flamingo style?
I would have to say the best choice is to sidestep it, and then return a round kick, or an axe kick with an additional follow-up. If you try to attack his leg, you could end up injuring yourself. I've seen it happen too many times where the guy trying to attack the leg ends up connecting with the other guys knee or elbow. SO my choice wouuld be to avoid the weapon by sidestepping. You can move in at 45 degree angle, then kick. Executing it on 2 separate beats. Or you can do the same thing simultaneously, executing all on one beat. Its like a 45 degree shuffle to move in, with a 45 degree round kick, to the trunk or the head. I personally favor doing the same motion with a lead roundkick followed by a rear round kick (in closed stance). If its in open stance you just switch the roles. Execute the first attack with you rear leg using the sidestep, and double up or follow-up with your lead. The sidestepping of the sidekick(most common) flamingo attack, buys you time to get creative once you get on the inside.
If you are taller than your opponent, you could also use the flamingo stance right back on him. Just kick over or around his leg, and your reach will score for you. Then you follow up with a few of your own. Its usually hard for an attack to get in, because this is where you excercise your reach. In this I say use the flamingo like a jab. Double or sometimes triple it up till you make contact, then follow up with a back kick, or spinhook kick. You could also make some light contact with his leg from your own flamingo, just to move it a little bit off centerline or to tangle it up, then follow it with a jump back kick, or jump spinhook.
But yes, the best thing to do would be to dodge it, then counter.
:asian: :asian:
I would have to say the best choice is to sidestep it, and then return a round kick, or an axe kick with an additional follow-up. If you try to attack his leg, you could end up injuring yourself. I've seen it happen too many times where the guy trying to attack the leg ends up connecting with the other guys knee or elbow. SO my choice wouuld be to avoid the weapon by sidestepping. You can move in at 45 degree angle, then kick. Executing it on 2 separate beats. Or you can do the same thing simultaneously, executing all on one beat. Its like a 45 degree shuffle to move in, with a 45 degree round kick, to the trunk or the head. I personally favor doing the same motion with a lead roundkick followed by a rear round kick (in closed stance). If its in open stance you just switch the roles. Execute the first attack with you rear leg using the sidestep, and double up or follow-up with your lead. The sidestepping of the sidekick(most common) flamingo attack, buys you time to get creative once you get on the inside.
If you are taller than your opponent, you could also use the flamingo stance right back on him. Just kick over or around his leg, and your reach will score for you. Then you follow up with a few of your own. Its usually hard for an attack to get in, because this is where you excercise your reach. In this I say use the flamingo like a jab. Double or sometimes triple it up till you make contact, then follow up with a back kick, or spinhook kick. You could also make some light contact with his leg from your own flamingo, just to move it a little bit off centerline or to tangle it up, then follow it with a jump back kick, or jump spinhook.
But yes, the best thing to do would be to dodge it, then counter.
:asian: :asian:
MichiganTKD
Master Black Belt
One thing I have also observed: Flamingo sparrers tend to have very weak kicking. Because by trying to fight on one leg, they demonstrate that they are used to fighting people who do not have enough power in their technique to unbalance them. If they actually fought people who could really contact, they would understand how stupid staying on one leg is.
Always makes me laugh whenever I see a crane-stance sparrer or someone who tries to execute multiple roundhouses or side kicks with the same leg without setting the foot down. Used extensively in point fighting. What exactly are they trying to accomplish?
Always makes me laugh whenever I see a crane-stance sparrer or someone who tries to execute multiple roundhouses or side kicks with the same leg without setting the foot down. Used extensively in point fighting. What exactly are they trying to accomplish?
Well, if I am winning the match by points, I will just let him stand there on one foot like an idoit while I freely move around so he can't hit me. Forces him to drop the leg and spar. If he doesn't want to, then I win by points when time is called.
Side stepping is really good and so is jamming, but you have to be really good with your timing and how you do it or else you will take a blow to the head.
Two things I enjoy doing are;
1) Throwing a strong side kick at his body. His leg is in the way and he will have to use it to block. This isn't illegal. He is using an area of his body you are not allowed to strike as a way to block a legal target area of his body. After getting knocked on his butt a few times and getting a sore leg he will learn why one learns how to do "proper" blocks and kicks.
Trust me, people who spar like a flamingo do so because they are not fast/strong enough to throw a effective kick from a sparring stance and/or they suck at defense/moving around so they use their leg as protection and to keep people away.
2)When you block your kick, block hard to bruise the leg and block in such a motion that their leg gets knocked away and they lose balance. Then you are free to punch them in their gut.
This works well with the jamming. If their leg is up and they do a round kick at you, then step into the kick while you block with your lead hand. If you time it right then you will be inside their legs (in such a position that they can not effectively kick you) and you can kind of "push off" with your block and knock them off balance as you punch them with a cross.
Side stepping is really good and so is jamming, but you have to be really good with your timing and how you do it or else you will take a blow to the head.
Two things I enjoy doing are;
1) Throwing a strong side kick at his body. His leg is in the way and he will have to use it to block. This isn't illegal. He is using an area of his body you are not allowed to strike as a way to block a legal target area of his body. After getting knocked on his butt a few times and getting a sore leg he will learn why one learns how to do "proper" blocks and kicks.
Trust me, people who spar like a flamingo do so because they are not fast/strong enough to throw a effective kick from a sparring stance and/or they suck at defense/moving around so they use their leg as protection and to keep people away.
2)When you block your kick, block hard to bruise the leg and block in such a motion that their leg gets knocked away and they lose balance. Then you are free to punch them in their gut.
This works well with the jamming. If their leg is up and they do a round kick at you, then step into the kick while you block with your lead hand. If you time it right then you will be inside their legs (in such a position that they can not effectively kick you) and you can kind of "push off" with your block and knock them off balance as you punch them with a cross.
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Gaidheal
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- Thread Starter
- #32
"What are they trying to accomplish?"
Points, presumably ;¬)
I agree, my humble (for our club at least) sidekick counter will send anyone on one leg back at least 3 or 4 feet and probably onto their **** (they MIGHT be good enough to stay standing, after all...).
Sparring is not "real" in terms of a fight.
John
Points, presumably ;¬)
I agree, my humble (for our club at least) sidekick counter will send anyone on one leg back at least 3 or 4 feet and probably onto their **** (they MIGHT be good enough to stay standing, after all...).
Sparring is not "real" in terms of a fight.
John
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DragonFooter
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- Thread Starter
- #33
Mind you, i'm the first to use the flamingo stance during sparring in my ITF school. the reason i use it because once the leg is in chambered position it adds deception and speed to any kick due to the shorter distance traveled to the target. However as time passes other students began to use it as well and soon, sparring sessions became boring as jam-kicks occur pretty often. This led me to the answer of using setups(deception) and jumping kicks. the idea is to get the flamingo sparrer to raise his/her leg and then launch a jump kick at him (preferably jump sidekick with the lead leg). For advanced sparrers use the 180 degrees spinning roundkick in the opposite direction of the opponent. In addition my master once sparred with me(still a flamingo user) and countered my stance with a sliding twisting kick touching my cheeks! Now that's what i call self control!! phew
Every time he/she puts it out hammer it with the strongest block you can. The toes,instep, and shin are your target. When you jam it drop an elbow onto the raised leg as you punch with the other hand.
I like the idea of the side kick into his leg, also. If the leg he presents to you is his primary weapon, take it away from him.
I like the idea of the side kick into his leg, also. If the leg he presents to you is his primary weapon, take it away from him.
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Gaidheal
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- Thread Starter
- #35
P.S. I will use it too (also ITF sparring) if only as an ABD (attack by drawing) technique. E.g. "Go Flamingo" and then when they start to come in drop foot and pivot to deliver a reverse kick as they (often) move right into it. Doesn't always work well, but equally, sometimes it works brilliantly. Then go back to "Flamingo" and see how they react.. after all, you might really kick off the front leg this time if they close.. being unpredictable in sparring is always going to be useful. I guess that is the heart of this one.. if all the user has is "Flamingo Style" it's both annoying and pretty easily dealt with. If it's just one of many useful "non-standard" stances to help conceal intentions and chambering of techniques, great.
John
John
Kodanjaclay
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I dun mean to sound silly, but what are you talking about? I have never heard of anything "flamingo" in KMA. Usually when I hear flamingo, I think pink flamingos from FL or Flamingo dancers in Vegas... i prefer the latter of the two.
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DragonFooter
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- #37
Flamingo stance is not the 'standard' term for taekwon-do it's more actually a err...'nickname' for the one legged stance as in the pattern/poomse/tul errr.. dan-goon?? or choong-moo. well flamingo dancers dance with one leg don't they?:boing2:Kodanjaclay said:I dun mean to sound silly, but what are you talking about? I have never heard of anything "flamingo" in KMA. Usually when I hear flamingo, I think pink flamingos from FL or Flamingo dancers in Vegas... i prefer the latter of the two.
Kodanjaclay
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Ok so its like a crane stance? I don't recall seeing one in either Dan Gun or Chung Moo. Of course, I haven't done that set in about 5 years or so, so I would not rely on my memory.
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Gaidheal
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- #39
It's not a move in Dan Gun. In fact, it's not even a recognized "TKD Move" at least not in ITF anyway! As a stance it's not terribly good EXCEPT for sparring, if you can pull it off (keeping opponent away with a flurry of kicks everytime they move to within range, because you have already chambered and can land the kick before they can do something to you). The discussion started because someone lacked the experience/knowledge to get around this (frustrating) technique which was being used on them in sparring bouts; they asked advice for dealing with it.. and lots was given! As well as a few admissions to using the technique against opponents who don't seem to be able to get around it, heh!
John
P.S. Yes, as a formal stance in some arts it would be called "Crane" or some variation (e.g. "White Crane"). Personally I call it the "Pink Flamingo" when countered properly, because they are pink with embarassment as they get up off the floor. The dancers are "Flamenco" (the word is the same meaning just different language/spelling as I understand it).
John
P.S. Yes, as a formal stance in some arts it would be called "Crane" or some variation (e.g. "White Crane"). Personally I call it the "Pink Flamingo" when countered properly, because they are pink with embarassment as they get up off the floor. The dancers are "Flamenco" (the word is the same meaning just different language/spelling as I understand it).
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DragonFooter
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- #40
in choong moo it's during the 6th movement if i recall correctly, but of course during sparring
we(flamingo stancers) use it in a more er...ready-to-attack state.
A better description would be when a sidekick is performed halfway with the leg in chambered position(not extended). A different version will be when a muay thai raises his knee to block against low kicks.
OK now what is a crane stance???
we(flamingo stancers) use it in a more er...ready-to-attack state.
A better description would be when a sidekick is performed halfway with the leg in chambered position(not extended). A different version will be when a muay thai raises his knee to block against low kicks.
OK now what is a crane stance???
