Tactical considerations in self defense

Juany118

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Okay, the purpose of this thread?

The tactical considerations of the martial arts are incredibly varied. Everything from environment, the sizes of opponents, weapons. There are some that people may not have considered but others did because of where they live. As an example in Fairbanks Alaska winter temperatures can last from October through April and some people would be surprised how effective heavy winter coats can be in terms of reducing impact damage let alone perhaps be cumbersome. In Northern climes they also deal with months of night, so a tactical flash light may be a necessity. Others may be things that "clicked" only because of an encounter or an occupation.

Regardless I am fairly certain that none of us have considered every possibility so the idea here is for people to share tactical considerations that they keep in mind and/or plan for and the techniques or methods that they use to address them. I'll start in the first response but I understand if this thread doesn't get a lot of traction because it can appear rather overwhelming but I think it would really help to inform us all.

I would like to set only one rule.

No pissing matches that "style X is superior". If you see an actual problem with a specific technique that could create a danger feel free to point it out but please keep 2 things in mind.

First, if you are going to criticize a specific technique, provide an alternative. Just shooting someone down is not constructive.
Second, PLEASE don't say "your style is crap for that learn X if you really want to deal with it".

Also, not a rule but if the considerations are extensive in nature, perhaps separating the posts into seperate posts would help keep things neat.

Oh and note the considerations need not be fighting technique oriented, situational awareness considerations, target hardening etc are all on the table.
 
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Steve

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By self defense, you mean an instance where someone is physically attacking you? My vote is avoid high risk behaviors, regardless of where you're living, and you'll be in pretty good shape. don't buy drugs in bad neighborhoods. Don't drink to excess in public. Things like that, and youll decrease your likelihood of being a victim of aggravated assault more than the national average of 230 or so out of 100,000 people.
 
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Juany118

Juany118

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Consideration 1 from me, keep your environment in mind. Basics, not talking about being in the "bad lands".

Now what I am going to reference here is about the inanimate environment, as such it's not as effective outside as you are always moving so it's constantly changing but inside it works. Look for entrances and exits, not just because that is where a threat may enter but sometimes the best defense is retreat. Also consider what around you is "solid" because if you can not escape finding cover may be the order of the day. Now if people want LEO specific environmental issues (potential weapons in a typical environment etc.) I will elaborate but that seems a bit of a tangent.
 
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Juany118

Juany118

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By self defense, you mean an instance where someone is physically attacking you? My vote is avoid high risk behaviors, regardless of where you're living, and you'll be in pretty good shape. don't buy drugs in bad neighborhoods. Don't drink to excess in public. Things like that, and youll decrease your likelihood of being a victim of aggravated assault more than the national average of 230 or so out of 100,000 people.

I will admit this thread is in part informed by my occupation. I have dealt with victims complete innocent. They parked their cars at point A, walked to the play house at point B to watch a stage play and got mugged. In essence this thread is about what do you consider, if you study for self defense, for the "oh crap" scenario.

That is why I put it on the self defense thread because some people look at martial arts the way other do a condom. "Better to have one and not need it, than need it and not have one."

Long story short I have learned you can do everything right and still be a victim.
 
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drop bear

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Fine.
If you want to push someone back and also want to avoid heaps of aggression. You can push them with your arm out to the side using your bicept rather than just double palming them in the chest. Saves that angry eye contact. And if they flare up you basically have their back.
 

drop bear

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By self defense, you mean an instance where someone is physically attacking you? My vote is avoid high risk behaviors, regardless of where you're living, and you'll be in pretty good shape. don't buy drugs in bad neighborhoods. Don't drink to excess in public. Things like that, and youll decrease your likelihood of being a victim of aggravated assault more than the national average of 230 or so out of 100,000 people.

Speaking of high risk behaviors.

if you see your house broken into. Don't go in there. Just wait outside for the cops.

If you do want to go in and scrap with whoever may be inside. I vote for tuning the lights on first rather than creeping up on a guy in the dark.
 

Monkey Turned Wolf

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Along the lines of what @Steve posted, every night I go for a jog. It occurs to me each jog when I pushing to go a bit farther; if someone were to attack me now, I'm likely to exhausted to protect myself. I couldn't run away, and my reaction and speed are probably slowed down. While in theory I am training a SD style and preparing myself for that encounter, I am just putting myself in more risk.

I don't mind this as in reality I do it because I enjoy it, but I find it odd that I put myself at more risk by training then I would if I didn't train at all.
 

oaktree

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" In essence this thread is about what do you consider, if you study for self defense, for the "oh crap" scenario. "

First thing I consider is my environment, am I in a rough area, I keep a mental note of anything that can be used to my advantage in most cases any type of weapon near me on the ground, any barriers, etc.

The second thing I look for is people is there anyone watching me, following me, people grouping together, anything looking out of place.

The third thing I look for if approached by someone or if someone is about to approaching I assume the worse from him.
I will keep my distance of at least 3 feet.

The fourth thing I keep in my mind is who ever is approaching me is carrying a weapon and wants to kill me.
Having been in situations where people truly have wanted to kill me that is just how I think when approached by strangers.

I am thinking that the oh crap situation has two basic variations 1.some sort of ego driven beer spilling, name calling cut me off in traffic situation and 2.I am robbing, I just want to kill you for fun type of situation. I easily avoid the first one by being well mannered, avoiding places like clubs, bars, apologize, and offer them what ever they want usually an apology and a handshake settles these things fine. If the second one again I assume he has a weapon or friends, and I may draw a weapon first, I may decide to run and hide or I may stand my ground and fight hand to hand, I prefer hand to hand last.

I also consider if there are people watching the fight because they will be witness and testify to the police should they show up so if that is the case I may not draw a weapon and put my hands up palm facing the guy and say I do not want to fight please dont hurt me. I was told by one of my teachers when police show up say I am in shock I need to go to the ER for treatment and I can not answer any questions till after I have been treated and then contact my lawyer at the hospital and have them speak to the police.
 
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Juany118

Juany118

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Along the lines of what @Steve posted, every night I go for a jog. It occurs to me each jog when I pushing to go a bit farther; if someone were to attack me now, I'm likely to exhausted to protect myself. I couldn't run away, and my reaction and speed are probably slowed down. While in theory I am training a SD style and preparing myself for that encounter, I am just putting myself in more risk.

I don't mind this as in reality I do it because I enjoy it, but I find it odd that I put myself at more risk by training then I would if I didn't train at all.
And these would be target hardening exercises. The point is this. Self defense is a rare occassion, you may never need to use it in your life. BUT if you tell yourself "I am training this for self defense" and you don't think, in advance, about tactical considerations and then find yourself needing to use it you actually increase, rather than decrease, your chance of injury (imo.)

Now if you aren't training martial arts for real world self defense, no worries. It is foolish imo however to go to a school telling yourself "this is to defend myself and then consider real world dynamics that don't exist inside the school, target hardening that can help prevent the situation in the first place etc.

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk
 

marques

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As an example in Fairbanks Alaska winter temperatures can last from October through April and some people would be surprised how effective heavy winter coats can be in terms of reducing impact damage let alone perhaps be cumbersome. In Northern climes they also deal with months of night, so a tactical flash light may be a necessity.
I think giving attention to that 'details', in self-defence, is as important as 'physical' skills. Old boys, you still have a chance. ;)

I thought about that yesterday. Because I put myself a big jacket.
- On the defensive side, I would neglect a bit the body in benefit of my head defence.
- On the offensive side, I would avoid body strikes and favour legs (and head) strikes. Takedowns would be nice, too, since they would fall easier and get up slowly. Quite the same as for fat guys. :)
 

Gerry Seymour

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I think this fits into "tactical" considerations. I travel a lot, so I deal with a LOT of restrictions. Since I don't normally check a bag, I cannot carry most of what people might consider as self-defense paraphernalia (including guns, pepper spray, kubotans, knives, etc.). Since I can't carry them on the plane, and won't have them at the other end, I choose to almost never carry them, at all. I don't want to develop habits of expectation that will slow my responses when those articles aren't handy.

So, I focus more on recognizing weapons I do have available (normal articles plus what's in the environment).
 

Gerry Seymour

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Now, for environment. This varies a lot by style. The more a style moves, the more the ground and cluttered area matter.

The more likely you are to use the ground (either going to the ground or putting them there with a throw or takedown) the more the ground matters.

If you use projections (throws that send them away, rather than straight down), then walls and clutter can be useful.
 

Steve

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I only buy my drugs in the nicest of neighborhoods. Sorry, Steve, I just couldn't resist that one. :D
:)

Tactically, if you're going to buy drugs or take drugs better to stick with legal ones consumed in the privacy of your own home. That's what I had in mind.

In Washington, purchasing weed is much safer now than a few years ago, for example.
 
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hoshin1600

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:)

Tactically, if you're going to buy drugs or take drugs better to stick with legal ones consumed in the privacy of your own home. That's what I had in mind.

In Washington, purchasing weed is much safer now than a few years ago, for example.
Won't be long before you will be able to buy your drugs on Amazon and have them delivered Via drone.
 

JowGaWolf

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Self defense is a rare occassion, you may never need to use it in your life.
I use self-defense techniques and methods everyday, both inside and outside of my house. If you a person that follows the idea that self-defense has physical and non-physical components then you should be using self-defense everyday. To some, these techniques and methods may not feel like "self-defense" because it has become the norm of what is done, but it would still be self-defense.

As for the physical tactics the rule is this. "It can happen to me." I train for the physical side of self-defense because of that statement. Physical ability and body conditioning takes time. It's something that I do when during the down times of physical conflicts. The human mind is strange because some people will say "I don't need it because it not likely to happen to me." Unfortunately when and if does happen, at that point it's too late to try to improve physical ability and body conditioning. It's too late to learn how to shoot straight. It's too late to drop 20 pounds or build up the endurance to run away. With self-defense, when that "physical" crap hits the fan, I have to be ready to go into action with what I have.

I guess we can look at martial art training (with training focus on a self-defense) and other self-defense training (not seminars) as an activity that ensures or increases readiness.
 

ShortBridge

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This is a very poignant and relevant topic and I appreciate you starting the discussion on it. I always challenge my students to work through this. Even within my city, the difference between living in the city vs the suburbs brings very different tactical considerations.

Sure, don't buy drugs off the street or get wasted and stumble out of bars into alleys in the middle of the night. But, I wait at bus stops (or don't wait as bus stops) and that's a major scenario that I consider in my training. Some of my students live just out of town and thus would never, ever find themselves waiting at a bus stop.

The streets are wet here much of the year, so traction and rooting is important and challenging. It's dark much of the year too, so yeah, 5 months of the year a flashlight is key.

I think this is one of the more worthwhile conversations I've seen here, so I'll give it at bit more time and promise to participate more when I can.
 

Buka

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Good thread, don't even know where to start.

Running away - if you live in places with cold climate, you're probably wearing heavy coat and boots. If you've never run in heavy coat and boots the option you think you have may not be a reality. If you do run - and get caught, you may be too exhausted too use anything you might normally use. Running in winter gear is tough. I don't mean road work in the winter, you dress differently for that, I mean the everyday stuff you go out in.

If you wear winter boots, and you consider kicking as part of your self defense repertoire, if you haven't actually done a lot of kicking in those very boots you're going to find your timing shot to hell, you're pivoting and grip completely different than anything you're used to or have even considered. On the flip side of that, certain sweeps you do might very well be enhanced, but again, if you haven't trained in those boots, you probably wouldn't know that. And for those who live in warm climates, boots are worn for months at a time by those in cold regions.

If you're wearing a heavy coat, especially with a thick shirt under it, your striking skills, especially if they're similar to western boxing, will be slightly different. Again, timing might be off, elbows which you probably keep close to the ribs, will naturally flare out some due to the clothing. This can slightly change your angles in punching, and even more so if you're used to punching and grabbing. If you live in these cold conditions and wear this stuff months at time, you might consider training in it to see the differences.
And if you haven't grappled in heavy clothing (it sucks) you might want to give that a try.

If you have a fancy pair of pimping shoes that look, oh so trendy, when out on the town, if you've never trained in them, you might be screwed. (Especially leather soles) Look good in the casket, though.

Uneven terrain - if you're downside and he upside, or vice versa, things are different. Both have advantages and disadvantages.

if you are in the unenviable position of having to wear a necktie, be aware that you are, in effect, wearing a hangman's noose. At the very least you are like a horse wearing reigns. It's why cops only wear clip ons. (Always loved subduing guys in neckties).
 

Buka

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Speaking of high risk behaviors.

if you see your house broken into. Don't go in there. Just wait outside for the cops.

If you do want to go in and scrap with whoever may be inside. I vote for tuning the lights on first rather than creeping up on a guy in the dark.

Yeah, maybe, but I always know my house pretty good. Way better than him/them.

But you're right, if you come home and they've broken in, call the cops....or.....possession being nine tenths of the law, they now kind of belong to you. And if they're armed, good. Old people have very little patience with unarmed home invaders. We take our homes way too seriously.
 
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