SubLevel Four Article # 4

Doc

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May issue of "Martial Arts Magazine" from CFW Publishing (Inside Kung Fu), gives a decent explanation of some aspects of Sublevel Four Kenpo.
 
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brianhunter

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Id definately read it..... IF I COULD FIND IT ON THE FREAKIN SHELF AROUND HERE SOMEWHERE!!! arrghhh. Stores only wanna sell balck belt and grappling magazines anymore! :(
 

jazkiljok

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Doc,

saw an article in another martial arts magazine recently- was just browsing so i don't recall the mag name-- it was about 7 types of kicks every woman should know-- now i could have been mistaken but i could have sworn it said she did Sub4 Kenpo-- that girl had some sharp form-- was that one of your students??
 
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Doc

Doc

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Originally posted by jazkiljok
Doc,

saw an article in another martial arts magazine recently- was just browsing so i don't recall the mag name-- it was about 7 types of kicks every woman should know-- now i could have been mistaken but i could have sworn it said she did Sub4 Kenpo-- that girl had some sharp form-- was that one of your students??

Yes, that is Rhonda Simpson in the same magazine, "Martial Arts Magazine." My highest and longest training female student. She has excellent body mechanics, and at the time of the shoot, she hadn't thrown a kick in 2 years because of a work related injury. She never missed a beat. Started studying with me in 1973, and works for the Santa Monica Ca. Police Department
 
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lonekimono

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someone will get mad over this but how many kenpo people
( upper ranks i mean purple and above) don't know P.points ?
just though i would ask?

yours in kenpo:confused: :confused:
the outter rim is how far out? and is that east or west?
 
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Kenpomachine

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Don't work often on them? I know we (the school I train in) only work them when they appear in a technique, but not specifically. If you want to know more, you have to do some research on your own.
 
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lonekimono

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research?? no, i was just asking how many of you already know them at this time in your training? i teach them at purple belt.

yours in kenpo:asian: :asian:
 
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brianhunter

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I have learned a few of them and studied them, more so due to law enforcement schools and seminars. As far as the dojo, Im an orange at the school I attend now and was a green at the school I left (Both AK). I have yet to have anyone cover pressure points or nerve targets.
 
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Kenpomachine

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Originally posted by lonekimono
research?? no, i was just asking how many of you already know them at this time in your training? i teach them at purple belt.

yours in kenpo:asian: :asian:

We know they exist, but not much more, hence the research. And by *we* I', refering to the students in the school I train in.
 
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lonekimono

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hey guys start asking about it,or go to Parker's infinite insights#4
there is a chart inside study it because it will help you.


yours in kenpo:asian: :asian:
 

D.Cobb

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Originally posted by lonekimono
someone will get mad over this but how many kenpo people
( upper ranks i mean purple and above) don't know P.points ?
just though i would ask?

yours in kenpo:confused: :confused:

In most cases, I have found that the level of pressure point knowledge, as shown by higher ranking kenpo people, at seminars etc. is limited to pain points, ie. points that don't do much other than cause pain when struck a certain way.

Of course that's not to say that all high ranks are like that. I know there are guys like Doc out there that have a useable knowledge, that is they can use them under duress.

Also I would like to point out that this comment would only apply to the few that I have met. In Australia, our potential for contact with higher ranking American Kenpo people, is extremely limited.

--Dave

:asian:
 
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Kenpomachine

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Do pressure points only relate to meridians and nerves, or they can be also used towards control?
Is there any correllation with body mechanics, as in joint manipulation, or is it only body phisiology?

Thanks,
:asian:

PS Maybe we should ask one of the admins to include the P points in the thread's name...
 

D.Cobb

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Originally posted by Kenpomachine
Do pressure points only relate to meridians and nerves, or they can be also used towards control?
Is there any correllation with body mechanics, as in joint manipulation, or is it only body phisiology?

Thanks,
:asian:

PS Maybe we should ask one of the admins to include the P points in the thread's name...

Whilst it is possible to execute joint manipulations without using pressure point applications, it is much easier and effective when you do use them.

Having said(written?) that, it is also true that you can use nerve strike/ manipulations to acheive the same or similar ends.
Of course, you can also say that all presure point strikes are in effect nerve strikes anyway, however you could not truthfully say that all nerve strikes are pressure point strikes.

I'm not sure if this answers your question, but I hope it does.

--Dave



:asian:
 

cdhall

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Originally posted by lonekimono
research?? no, i was just asking how many of you already know them at this time in your training? i teach them at purple belt.

yours in kenpo:asian: :asian:

They are almost entirely absent from my training. I went to see Mr. Parker Jr. in 2000 because he advertised "Nerve Activations, Pressure Points" and something else. It was really just perhaps the only time this material in any detail at all by anyone I had had a class with since I began Chinese Kenpo in 1984. Interestingly, my original Chinese Kenpo teacher also knew and taught Accupuncture but did not specifically ever mention using nerve strikes, meridians, energy activations or anything else when he taught us techniques. I have the vague memory that he recognized such material but that he was either withholding it for later or considered it a separate study.

When I went back to Mr. Parker Jr in 2002 to see a seminar with the same advertised theme, he only briefly mentioned the topic but discussed "Uncle Joe/Passive Kenpo" and now I have decided to use this Passive Kenpo idea for my Black Belt Thesis.

I hope that I can find a way to study the Pressure Point stuff in earnest later. I think Doc and George Dillman are the only Two guys I know of that claim to teach this type of material outright.

Doc says his and Mr. Dillman's stuff are not really the same.

Mr. Dillman says I should buy the first book and then watch the first 6 tapes in order and then get to a seminar. I know, it sounds like he could also sell me a car, but this should also be sound advice. :confused: He also said he has some Ed Parker Kenpo people coming out to a camp of his this May.

Like I said, I think this is a good idea. Doc has a great philosophy about mastery being related to you being able to defeat your opponent without maiming or killing him and this is the main idea behind my Thesis. I'm going to need a year or two to learn enough about this to write about it, but I hope it works out.

I wish it was taught to me as part of the EPAK curriculum. Looking at Mr. Dillman's Advanced Pressure Point Fighting Book I see that Taming the Mace seems designed to hit 2 pressure points in rapid succession and I am sure that if Dillman can use these points to induce a knockout that Mr. Parker must have also been able to do it. It seems like Taming the Mace should not get past the 2nd Strike. It also seemed to me that we have several techniques that hit on or near a pressure point that we aren't "taught" and I doubt very seriously that Mr. Parker didn't know this by the time he did his last revision of the system.

Did Mr. Parker ever knock people out at seminars, or did he just "smack them around alot?" Mr. Parker Jr. told the story about the Van pulling Mr. Parker off the road. He says his Mom told the story as a gruesome tale but his Dad said "I smacked 'em around a bit." Or something very similar, so that is where I'm getting that phrase from.
 
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Kenpomachine

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Originally posted by D.Cobb
Whilst it is possible to execute joint manipulations without using pressure point applications, it is much easier and effective when you do use them.

Having said(written?) that, it is also true that you can use nerve strike/ manipulations to acheive the same or similar ends.
Of course, you can also say that all presure point strikes are in effect nerve strikes anyway, however you could not truthfully say that all nerve strikes are pressure point strikes.

I'm not sure if this answers your question, but I hope it does.

--Dave



:asian:

Thanks, it does :)
 
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Kenpomachine

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Just came to my mind, are many p. points also vital points? I'm thinking about some of the targets on finger set :D
 

jfarnsworth

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Originally posted by Doc
May issue of "Martial Arts Magazine" from CFW Publishing (Inside Kung Fu), gives a decent explanation of some aspects of Sublevel Four Kenpo.

Dr. Chapel if I may ask. I was in barnes & noble today buying a book when I remembered this thread. As for going over to the mag. rack and finding this issue, Was that article almost exactly like the one you did for black belt? The techniques described were the same as you pointed out in the earlier black belt mag. you did. Now there wasn't enough time for me to read the entire article but it looked closely like the other. Regardless of the difference of the mag. your black belt article was really good & I enjoyed it alot. It had some good points to it and was some good reading.:asian:
 
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Doc

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Originally posted by jfarnsworth
Dr. Chapel if I may ask. I was in barnes & noble today buying a book when I remembered this thread. As for going over to the mag. rack and finding this issue, Was that article almost exactly like the one you did for black belt? The techniques described were the same as you pointed out in the earlier black belt mag. you did. Now there wasn't enough time for me to read the entire article but it looked closely like the other. Regardless of the difference of the mag. your black belt article was really good & I enjoyed it alot. It had some good points to it and was some good reading.:asian:
Thank you I appreciate it. No the articles are completely different. The current one partly explains some of the many levels of SubLevel Four Kenpo, and doesn't really touch on nerves trikes. the next article will be on how to counter a street grappler. I think it's going in BB.
 
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