Street guys. Please give direct technical answers.

[HighKick]

Exept the results are worse as you would be responsible for that stolen gun.

And the threat is higher because someone wants that gun more than your glasses.

True enough but that does not match up with the odds of a gun being forcefully taken away from someone.
I am Not trying to diminish the threat, just trying to add some realism to the equation. Even when I open carry, it is going to be damn hard for someone to just walk up and talk my gun out of the holster.
Hence the glasses in the eye reference.
Again, it has a Lot to do with preparation, awareness, and education.

 

[HighKick]

It happens to cops during struggles as well, it’s well documented. This is why some guys like retention holsters that have a draw release. If you hip carry, a guy behind you has the perfect angle to draw your weapon. If I’m appendix or shoulder carrying concealed there is less chance of printing and thus revealing my firearm. I concede that open hip carry is much faster on the draw. Again, this is unlikely, particularly in rural areas, but it does happen.

Who said it never happens?
I said people who Do carry need to be very, very informed, practiced, and prepared.

 

[Anarax]

Mambo was an experienced and skilled fighter by anyone’s measure. The three stabbers were in really bad shape within seconds.

What styles has Mambo trained in?

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

What styles has Mambo trained in?

Wrestling, boxing, bouncing. He had a ton of real fight experience over a long period of time. Add that to a massive hulk like physique, and a good natured, humorous intellect.

 

[marvin8]

True enough but that does not match up with the odds of a gun being forcefully taken away from someone.
I am Not trying to diminish the threat, just trying to add some realism to the equation. Even when I open carry, it is going to be damn hard for someone to just walk up and talk my gun out of the holster.
Hence the glasses in the eye reference.
Again, it has a Lot to do with preparation, awareness, and education.

Alan Baker teaches self-defense and gun carry.

Sifu Alan Baker
Jul 28, 2025

Learn how to control a violent encounter before it hits the ground. In this video, Sifu Alan Baker joins legendary martial artist Coach Eric Paulson at the CSW Training Center in California to explore clinch control and standing grappling strategies—adapted for situations where a firearm is present.

Sifu Alan Baker
Apr 21, 2025

In this video, Sifu Alan Baker sits down with renowned coach Greg Nelson at the CSW World Conference in Orange County to break down the realities of weapon retention during grappling.

They dive into:

• How to protect your firearm while clinched or on the ground
• The role of elbow positioning and structural control
• The difference between sport grappling and real-world survival
• Transitions between wall, clinch, and ground scenarios
• How training with a firearm refines your defense and positioning

 

[drop bear]

Alan Baker teaches self-defense and gun carry.

Sifu Alan Baker
Jul 28, 2025

Learn how to control a violent encounter before it hits the ground. In this video, Sifu Alan Baker joins legendary martial artist Coach Eric Paulson at the CSW Training Center in California to explore clinch control and standing grappling strategies—adapted for situations where a firearm is present.

Sifu Alan Baker
Apr 21, 2025

In this video, Sifu Alan Baker sits down with renowned coach Greg Nelson at the CSW World Conference in Orange County to break down the realities of weapon retention during grappling.

They dive into:

• How to protect your firearm while clinched or on the ground
• The role of elbow positioning and structural control
• The difference between sport grappling and real-world survival
• Transitions between wall, clinch, and ground scenarios
• How training with a firearm refines your defense and positioning

I have seen people try to hit the Aoki standing arm lock a bit from there.

 

[drop bear]

Just because I came across it. Blocking in sport fighting.

But. They are both super slick. And are doing all of this back of house to make those blocks work. And have a style that takes years to develop.

So If you are trying to translate that to 40 year old divorced father who just turns up twice a week and wants to learn self defence.

Mabye something simpler.

But. If we are discussing street fighting. This method of back foot range fighting, while looking very sport. Murders people in the street, while preserving your head. And making the exchange a game of skill and not a game of who is tougher or luckier.

Especially if we work on the premise that a street fighter isn't very good. Because they will jump in to your shots and eat poo.

And it works if you do encounter someone who can fight as well.

And if they have a weapon. You have that bit of distance. You can more easily see it. And adress it.

 

[Anarax]

Wrestling, boxing, bouncing. He had a ton of real fight experience over a long period of time. Add that to a massive hulk like physique, and a good natured, humorous intellect.

Do you believe that is wrestling and boxing helped him deal with the altercation?

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Do you believe that is wrestling and boxing helped him deal with the altercation?

No.

 

[drop bear]

I have found that accidents occur while training with Multiple opponents as soon as grappling occurs.
The target gets tied up and if they attack high and low and then they are thrown / or fall they land on someone who usually isn't expecting to be a pillow.

The safe wrap system uses the rugby 2 on one method for takedowns.

Just thought that was a weird coincidence.

9.2K views · 221 reactions | The average police officer in the United States receives 0-4 hours of on-duty training time per year on to how to safely and effectively control someone. We are trying to change that by incorporating regularly occurring t

The average police officer in the United States receives 0-4 hours of on-duty training time per year on to how to safely and effectively control someone. We are trying to change that by incorporating...

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[Rich Parsons]

The safe wrap system uses the rugby 2 on one method for takedowns.

Just thought that was a weird coincidence.

9.2K views · 221 reactions | The average police officer in the United States receives 0-4 hours of on-duty training time per year on to how to safely and effectively control someone. We are trying to change that by incorporating regularly occurring t

The average police officer in the United States receives 0-4 hours of on-duty training time per year on to how to safely and effectively control someone. We are trying to change that by incorporating...

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And Two on One can be done safely - e.g. Rugby et al

When there are four, five or six I find that when the target falls someone gets hurts.
Sometimes just a fat lip or minor bruise / cut not expected, yet other times it means time off for healing and recovery.

Mileage may vary.
Anecdotal to you, empirical to me. I have multiple samples for me.
Yet to you I would be one sample.

So I can see where many would be hesitant to react or take actions based upon this data alone

 

[marvin8]

Just because I came across it. Blocking in sport fighting.

The video title reads “Evasive, Trickiest and Slick” with the thumbnail showing Micah pulling a punch not blocking it.

But. They are both super slick. And are doing all of this back of house to make those blocks work. And have a style that takes years to develop.

What do you mean by “They… are doing all of this back of house to make those blocks work?” Can you answer my question in post #132?

Micah and Jeff are evasive by pull/countering and slipping punches and tricky by using feints. Micah does more blocking as he pressures Jeff. They are sparring for MMA competition, not necessarily self-defense.

When you say blocking is higher tier, it’s confusing. Because that’s like saying a rear cross is higher tier which it’s not. It’s a basic technique. However, the application of a technique(s) can be at a higher level. To be more “specific and technical (OP),” when you try to block a jab, right cross, jab combination, you are reacting to an opponent. The problem is when you go to block the jab. An opponent can feint the jab, get you to block the jab but turn it into a hook instead. A good fighter reacts to opportunities. A great fighter creates opportunities.

In contrast, the bait, pull/counter combination is a higher level sequence (creates opportunity). Micah baits the opponent out of position then pull/counters…

So If you are trying to translate that to 40 year old divorced father who just turns up twice a week and wants to learn self defence.

Mabye something simpler.

But. If we are discussing street fighting. This method of back foot range fighting, while looking very sport. Murders people in the street, while preserving your head. And making the exchange a game of skill and not a game of who is tougher or luckier.

Especially if we work on the premise that a street fighter isn't very good. Because they will jump in to your shots and eat poo.

And it works if you do encounter someone who can fight as well.

And if they have a weapon. You have that bit of distance. You can more easily see it. And adress it.

Yes.

 

[drop bear]

What do you mean by “They… are doing all of this back of house to make those blocks work?” Can you answer my question in post #132?

Let's say blocking is pushing and covering is pulling.

They use distance, footwork and timing to make the other person's punches easier to read.

When they can read the punches coming in that is when they will push their hand away from their face to address it. So there is a bunch of stuff they are doing before they consider blocking, basically.

Alternatively. And using the same OP example.

He is just standing there waiting for this shot in the hopes he can read it, then out run it. There is no back of house to his blocking.

 

[drop bear]

Micah and Jeff are evasive by pull/countering and slipping punches and tricky by using feints. Micah does more blocking as he pressures Jeff. They are sparring for MMA competition, not necessarily self-defense.

How should Micah sparring differently for self defence?

 

[Holmejr]

How should Micah sparring differently for self defence?

Most, but not all attacks come from ambush. Actually if you have the skills to pull of what Micah is demonstrating then use it. If you can kick like super foot then use it. If you have the skills to get to somebody’s back and choke them out, do it. But, I think generally speaking, striking a pose and dancing around with an attacker is not where we want to be. I reiterate this with every conversation, self defense comes out of blackness. It doesn’t show itself until needed and when needed it must be explosive. If someone attacks you with the intent of great bodily harm, you have no choice. The vast majority of people will never culture the skills of a Micah. Maybe a few of us already possess these skills. There was a video of an ex mma fighter who was attacked in a parking lot by a knife welding assailant. The mma fighter instinctively jumped (burst) in and threw the guy hard to the ground. Real life and beautifully done. We train mostly by “burst” or by “attack”. Our only sparing is via our version of Tapi tapi.

 

[drop bear]

Most, but not all attacks come from ambush. Actually if you have the skills to pull of what Micah is demonstrating then use it. If you can kick like super foot then use it. If you have the skills to get to somebody’s back and choke them out, do it. But, I think generally speaking, striking a pose and dancing around with an attacker is not where we want to be. I reiterate this with every conversation, self defense comes out of blackness. It doesn’t show itself until needed and when needed it must be explosive. If someone attacks you with the intent of great bodily harm, you have no choice. The vast majority of people will never culture the skills of a Micah. Maybe a few of us already possess these skills. There was a video of an ex mma fighter who was attacked in a parking lot by a knife welding assailant. The mma fighter instinctively jumped (burst) in and threw the guy hard to the ground. Real life and beautifully done. We train mostly by “burst” or by “attack”. Our only sparing is via our version of Tapi tapi.

No. Most attacks really don't.

 

[Holmejr]

No. Most attacks really don't.

Well, I suppose you correct for the average person. We have a few law enforcement folks that say for them it the preponderance. I should have qualified my thoughts better.

 

[drop bear]

Well, I suppose you correct for the average person. We have a few law enforcement folks that say for them it the preponderance. I should have qualified my thoughts better.

It honestly doesn't matter if they are ambushes or not. In sparring at some point you will have to fight back to your range. Or fight from a position of disadvantage.

Trying to have a style of fighting that only has one position in the hopes you will encounter that one position is pretty inefficient.

 

[Holmejr]

It honestly doesn't matter if they are ambushes or not. In sparring at some point you will have to fight back to your range. Or fight from a position of disadvantage.

Trying to have a style of fighting that only has one position in the hopes you will encounter that one position is pretty inefficient.

Agreed. Exactly why GM incorporated judo and boxing from the get go.

 

[marvin8]

Let's say blocking is pushing and covering is pulling.

They use distance, footwork and timing to make the other person's punches easier to read.

When they can read the punches coming in that is when they will push their hand away from their face to address it. So there is a bunch of stuff they are doing before they consider blocking, basically.

Keep your hands near your face can be a block. The core principle is to “hit and don’t get hit.” You either lead and control your opponent or they do it to you.

Block, then hit is a lower tier skill (physics wise) than simultaneous defense and offense. An even higher tier is to, given the space, lead and control your opponent (with “back of the house”) safely before entering the pocket (where you can reach each other). So that in the pocket, the opponent is unable to throw a punch or an attack (which does not require blocking). From the video in my post #132, the boxer KOs multiple attackers in the street.

The boxer…

1. pendulum steps back to a safe distance.
2. steps back with the lead foot then forward with it (stutter step, deception, pressure).
3. then as the attacker’s feet are together, he enters the pocket with a leaping lead hook KOs him and exits stepping back at an angle.
4. faces the second attacker, throws the rear straight as the opponent is on one leg trying to kick him and KOs him.

Same question, Where in this video can you say, per physics, it’s better for him to block first then punch?

https://imgur.com/WMrZLWG

Alternatively. And using the same OP example.

He is just standing there waiting for this shot in the hopes he can read it, then out run it. There is no back of house to his blocking.

Yes. He reacts. He doesn’t lead the opponent by baiting him to punch (back of house).

How should Micah sparring differently for self defence?

There may be less concern about trading attacks to score points.